Sub $1K AR's,.. a waste of money or a bargain?

[HCM]

This can be kind of a hard question right now because of availability. Usually we'd say, "Go buy a BCM, Colt, SOLGW, Daniel Defense, etc...." but that's not really good advice since you can't readily buy any of those right now with any choice in a decent choice of varieties....and if you do find whatever specific one you're looking for, you're going to pay a premium markup.

If you want to keep the decision simple and buy something readily available for under $1k that will generally do you well, I'd get this: https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...ight-set3.html

I would not get the M&P, honestly. They have absurdly heavy barrels for standard carbine use. While falling short of "duty-grade" in a few harder to notice but key points (one of which can be easily rectified for $80 with the purchase of a BCM bolt head), the one I linked to is equal or better to the M&P in virtually every category. The Gov't profile barrel isn't a nice lightweight profile but it's at least noticeably lighter than the M&P Sport....the rail system will allow you to experiment with different placements for grips, lights, etc and is lightweight. The mid-length gas system will shoot softer and the bolt will have a longer life than a carbine gas system........and while subjective, the furniture is much nicer than what the M&P Sport is wearing. Again, that's subjective, but I despise the A2 grip.

To me, that's a no brainer decision if I were limiting my choices to in-stock complete rifles for under $1000. If you wanted to mix-and-match uppers and lowers and look at building something, you could do better.....but honestly I don't see that being a good route for you to pursue at your current knowledge level. My recommendation is to start with the one I linked to, start shooting and learning, and go from there.

Have fun, enjoy.

Two issues:

The PSA you linked is out of stock and with PSA that could be a week or it could be a year, or they could never offer that combo again. It's random.

Which brings me to the other issue with PSA: the quality is like the proverbial box of chocolates. You never know what you are going to get. might be good, might be ok, might not. That's ok for someone who knows AR's to roll the dice on but like mixing uppers and lowers, not ideal for someone new to the game.

The S&W Sport II is what it is, but it is a known quantity with a reliable warranty behind it.

as for the barrel profile:

[TGS]

The PSA you linked is out of stock...

Well that goes to show the availability issues right now, because the reason I linked to it is because it was in-stock...

[Wise_A]

If your goal is to shoot groups of holes into paper pick up a decent bolt gun with scope and learn to shoot it until the above is resolved.

Bingo. And to be honest, I would have a very hard time recommending a new shooter get into centerfire bolt guns at the moment. Especially given what I understand of OP's ammo-buying habits. I think it would be an exercise in frustration.

Get either a 10/22 (and only if you can find one reasonably-priced, i.e.--not $400), or a CZ 457. The CZ is definitely worth spending more. I've also heard nice things about the Tikka T1X. Get a decent low-power scope (I would figure on $300 as a minimum), and for the love of all that's good and holy, buy your ammunition in at least brick quantities for the bolt guns. That's 10 boxes (500 rounds) sold packaged in a larger box. This way, you know you're getting all the ammunition from the same lot. If you're buying it a box here and a box there, you're going to waste a bunch of time and ammunition re-zeroing.

If you buy some Bucket o' Bullets, you will get miserable reliable and accuracy, and disgrace your Tikka or CZ. Look for CCI Standard, Aguila Super Extra, etc, at a minimum. Some guys will spend a lot more on .22 ammo.

I think buying an AR right now only makes sense if you think there's going to be some AWB-esque legislation with a grandfather clause. Personally, I would say it's really dumb to buy a Smith and Wesson M&P 15 for $200 less than what a complete Bravo Company rifle costs under normal circumstances. If you absolutely had to buy one, there are deals popping up all the time for somewhat better rifles for the same price.

[BehindBlueI's]

Well that goes to show the availability issues right now, because the reason I linked to it is because it was in-stock...

Their basic is in stock @ $549: https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...fle-black.html

I'm just a bit hesitant to recommend PSA to someone who's new to ARs and doesn't have someone who can do a good inspection on it or deal with any little issues on their own. I own a PSA that was went through by our armorer and have used it as a training gun with zero issue, so I'm certainly not anti-PSA. I just think the Sport II is a better odds first gun that'll do what pretty much anyone wants to do with an AR.

[HCM]

Their basic is in stock @ $549: https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...fle-black.html

I'm just a bit hesitant to recommend PSA to someone who's new to ARs and doesn't have someone who can do a good inspection on it or deal with any little issues on their own. I own a PSA that was went through by our armorer and have used it as a training gun with zero issue, so I'm certainly not anti-PSA. I just think the Sport II is a better odds first gun that'll do what pretty much anyone wants to do with an AR.

The only PSA I currently own is a .22 upper but as the armorer who has gone through a bunch of these guns for co-workers I agree.

[HCM]

Bingo. And to be honest, I would have a very hard time recommending a new shooter get into centerfire bolt guns at the moment. Especially given what I understand of OP's ammo-buying habits. I think it would be an exercise in frustration.

Get either a 10/22 (and only if you can find one reasonably-priced, i.e.--not $400), or a CZ 457. The CZ is definitely worth spending more. I've also heard nice things about the Tikka T1X. Get a decent low-power scope (I would figure on $300 as a minimum), and for the love of all that's good and holy, buy your ammunition in at least brick quantities for the bolt guns. That's 10 boxes (500 rounds) sold packaged in a larger box. This way, you know you're getting all the ammunition from the same lot. If you're buying it a box here and a box there, you're going to waste a bunch of time and ammunition re-zeroing.

If you buy some Bucket o' Bullets, you will get miserable reliable and accuracy, and disgrace your Tikka or CZ. Look for CCI Standard, Aguila Super Extra, etc, at a minimum. Some guys will spend a lot more on .22 ammo.

I think buying an AR right now only makes sense if you think there's going to be some AWB-esque legislation with a grandfather clause. Personally, I would say it's really dumb to buy a Smith and Wesson M&P 15 for $200 less than what a complete Bravo Company rifle costs under normal circumstances. If you absolutely had to buy one, there are deals popping up all the time for somewhat better rifles for the same price.

Given the OP wants an AR why not a S&W M&P 15-22 ?

[idahojess]

I bought my first AR, a Rock River, in 2008, before the election. It was more expensive (and probably heavier) than that Smith, but probably not a better gun, and I still have it, with others, including a Colt.

If I recall correctly, Smith and Wesson and Ruger and others were not selling AR's at that point. (Colt was, obviously, and yeah, that's what I should have bought in 2008, but...).

I remember after the 2008 election AR's couldn't be found, and peg board being all that was on the walls at shops. Similar events occurred in 2013.

There have been deals on ARs in in past years, as supply outpaced demand, but that price on that Smith doesn't seem unreasonable to me given the way prices go up and down. It is probably right around MSRP, and it isn't a gouge.

Even if you're not shooting super tight groups at 100 yards, I think AR's are still fun to shoot, easy to run, relatively accurate and have other obvious benefits. I've got one good hand, and so long as I've got a loaded magazine, I can shoot my AR.

Make sure you get a safe -- even something like a stack-on.

[HCM]

I bought my first AR, a Rock River, in 2008, before the election. It was more expensive (and probably heavier) than that Smith, but probably not a better gun, and I still have it, with others, including a Colt.

If I recall correctly, Smith and Wesson and Ruger and others were not selling AR's at that point. (Colt was, obviously, and yeah, that's what I should have bought in 2008, but...).

I remember after the 2008 election AR's couldn't be found, and peg board being all that was on the walls at shops. Similar events occurred in 2013.

There have been deals on ARs in in past years, as supply outpaced demand, but that price on that Smith doesn't seem unreasonable to me given the way prices go up and down. It is probably right around MSRP, and it isn't a gouge.

Even if you're not shooting super tight groups at 100 yards, I think AR's are still fun to shoot, easy to run, relatively accurate and have other obvious benefits. I've got one good hand, and so long as I've got a loaded magazine, I can shoot my AR.

Make sure you get a safe -- even something like a stack-on.

S&W started selling the M&P ARs in 2006 or 2007. I got mine in 2007. The Sports did not come till later.

Colt's were very hard to come by in 2006/07/08 due to production for the Iraq war. If you could find one a 6920 was usually $1500 or more. It's actually what lead me to LMT at the time.

[5pins]

I'm not a PSA hater either but their customer service is less than stellar. S&W on the other hand has been fantastic IMO. I would spend the extra money and get the M&P.

[Wise_A]

Given the OP wants an AR why not a S&W M&P 15-22 ?

Because I live where I do and they honestly just don't even occur to me as viable options, but yeah. They're pretty cheap, I think I've even seen them down in just-above-the-10/22 territory. If they were inflated up to T1X or 457 pricing, I do think that there are a lot more interesting things to do with those bolt-actions than the 15-22. But I'm a bolt-action shooter, so I'm biased anyway.