NVG Q&A

[Default.mp3]

And it’s me again. Lol! Putting together my NV upper and at the point of analysis paralysis regarding the optic.

Those of you who’ve shot with nods, do you have a favorite optic for passive aiming? I’m looking at the T-2, Aimpoint PRO, and Trijicon MRO HD. Whichever one I choose will get a 2.26” or 2.33” mount. I like the idea of the PRO for a slightly larger tube which may make it easier to line up the nods. I like the MRO HD because it has the 68MOA donut reticle. The T-2 is of course light and durable but it’s also considerably more expensive.

Any thoughts or experiences that would sway me one way or another? Thanks!

Is an EOTech completely out of the question? I personally have zero practical experience with passive aiming (I've fucked with my RMRs at 1200 on top of my Spuhr 1.89" and my CompM5 on top of a Scalarworks 1.93", both worked okay), but an EXPS3 is generally considered the pinnacle of passive aiming optics, AFAIK, due to its excellent light transmission and ability to instantly switch between NV mode and daylight mode without having to dial through the intermediate settings; there is also an argument for having many possible night vision compatible modes on an optic, given the differing light conditions one might be using NODs in an urban environment. For a dedicated NV gun, it might be worth checking out over an RDS; I personally will be sticking with my Aimpoint CompM5 because I don't really care to throw down the money for a dedicated NV gun/upper, and I suspect for most people that'll be the case, but if you do have that luxury, well, give it some serious consideration.

As others have alluded to, the EOTech provides the best light transmission of any RDS I've tried so far, due to both the holographic technology used, which does not require the same types of lens coatings as projected LED dots, and bears more resemblance to a fighter aircraft's HUD than most other red dot sights available on the market.

Moreover, both the housing size and shape translate to better light transmission as well as field of view--not only is the EOTech's housing and protective outer hood thin, and designed to allow some light to pass through, the rectangular shape (as opposed to circular) means that more light can get "past" the optic housing due to asymmetry between the image intensifier's field of view and the optic. A circular FOV essentially creates a concentric "blockage" that ultimately prevents more light from reaching the image intensifier's objective lens, leading to a darker overall image--even if the optic housing is only "seen" as a blur or shadow, it is still blocking valuable light from reaching the user when placed between the target and shooter.

Night vision compatible EOTechs also not only have the convenient "NV" button that allows you to immediately switch between daylight brightness and passive NV use, but the buttons also "remember" the brightness settings, meaning you don't have to cycle through to find the "right" setting as much as you would on a rheostat dial.

Moreover, the NV-compatible EOTechs have ten brightness settings for NV use, as opposed to the 2-4 that are common on most other dot optics, allowing you to more precisely dial the brightness for your environment and intended use. Having shot passive for quite a while, depending on environment and conditions, I've needed to dial the brightness back to the "bottom" of the NV settings in extremely dark conditions, to actually needing to go into lower visible settings in brighter environments.

Our daylight optics often have 8-12 daylight brightness settings based on variability of conditions, I see no reason why our NV optics should not also. Four is less than ideal, and two pretty much only works for pistol applications.

Different optics have their own advantages and disadvantages, and I use a lot of other optics, including for passive NV use, including T1s and T2s depending on what my particular needs are for that rifle--I am far from saying that the EOTech is the only serviceable optic for passive aiming use.

However, if performance and capabilities for passive NV shooting are the sole consideration, EOTechs are still the best I've used by a wide margin.

~Augee

Source: https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/P...8878/#i5422567

[karmapolice]

And it’s me again. Lol! Putting together my NV upper and at the point of analysis paralysis regarding the optic.

Those of you who’ve shot with nods, do you have a favorite optic for passive aiming? I’m looking at the T-2, Aimpoint PRO, and Trijicon MRO HD. Whichever one I choose will get a 2.26” or 2.33” mount. I like the idea of the PRO for a slightly larger tube which may make it easier to line up the nods. I like the MRO HD because it has the 68MOA donut reticle. The T-2 is of course light and durable but it’s also considerably more expensive.

Any thoughts or experiences that would sway me one way or another? Thanks!

T-2 will be best out of those options and has the least parallax out of all there is some legit issues with others etc. This size of the optic isn't going to matter under NVG, I've shot an RMR on rifle above scope and on pistols a bunch under NVG. I've also used a T1, M4S, others.

That said I do run Eotech EXPS3-0's on my carbines.

[El Cid]

@karmapolice @Default.mp3 @Corse

Thanks for the quick responses. As far as EOTech, if someone gave me a free one I’d sell or trade it. Between their illegal and immoral behavior, and the number of them I’ve had fail or seen fail in LE, I doubt I’ll ever trust them again. It’s a shame too because as y’all noted, they cater to NV use more than any other optic maker I’m familiar with. And the donut is my favorite style of reticle which is why I am considering the MRO HD.

And yes... my nods will have L3 Harris tubes, and EOTech was sold by them to American Holoptics. But to have the best NV means using their tubes. And maybe AH will improve the optics to where I can trust them again. But I’m happy to wait and let others vet them. Lol!

Corse, you found a 1.69” mount is tall enough for use with nods? The SME’s I’ve talked to recommend the taller mounts.

[karmapolice]

@karmapolice @Default.mp3 @Corse

Thanks for the quick responses. As far as EOTech, if someone gave me a free one I’d sell or trade it. Between their illegal and immoral behavior, and the number of them I’ve had fail or seen fail in LE, I doubt I’ll ever trust them again. It’s a shame too because as y’all noted, they cater to NV use more than any other optic maker I’m familiar with. And the donut is my favorite style of reticle which is why I am considering the MRO HD.

And yes... my nods will have L3 Harris tubes, and EOTech was sold by them to American Holoptics. But to have the best NV means using their tubes. And maybe AH will improve the optics to where I can trust them again. But I’m happy to wait and let others vet them. Lol!

Corse, you found a 1.69” mount is tall enough for use with nods? The SME’s I’ve talked to recommend the taller mounts.

So L3 fixed that o via stepping in with Eotech awhile back, so any 2016 or newer Eotech is good to go. Obviously now L3 sold Eotech but back then they weren't running things as Eotech was just a subsidiary and L3 people weren't involved heavily or in the manufacturing side but after the issues they stepped in.

I have gad 1.93" it works fine but taller mount is preferred especially with Gas mask use even sans NVG. Last Aimpoint I had was on Unity Fast and the KAC skyscraper is good.

I run a Larue 5/8 riser I vut the goose neck off on my work rifle now.



helmet set up currently

[Corse]

@karmapolice @Default.mp3 @Corse

Thanks for the quick responses. As far as EOTech, if someone gave me a free one I’d sell or trade it. Between their illegal and immoral behavior, and the number of them I’ve had fail or seen fail in LE, I doubt I’ll ever trust them again. It’s a shame too because as y’all noted, they cater to NV use more than any other optic maker I’m familiar with. And the donut is my favorite style of reticle which is why I am considering the MRO HD.

And yes... my nods will have L3 Harris tubes, and EOTech was sold by them to American Holoptics. But to have the best NV means using their tubes. And maybe AH will improve the optics to where I can trust them again. But I’m happy to wait and let others vet them. Lol!

Corse, you found a 1.69” mount is tall enough for use with nods? The SME’s I’ve talked to recommend the taller mounts.

I have in the application I’m using it in now. Some of that I can attribute to being on a SIG Rattler. Which has a higher rail height than an AR. I’m not sure what this correlates to with regards to the standard rail height. (Probably should have included this in my last post). Even without getting a real check weld, I have had no issues though.

Another thing I have seen is that the lack of focus on closer objects seems to help me superimpose the dot on the target. No issues with parallax and hitting a 4”x8” steel at 75+ yrds. I have experienced the same thing when shooting dot equipped pistols. I feel that I am looking “over” the optic, but I can easily use the dot.

[theJanitor]

My opinions should mean very little as I'm relatively new to the NV game, but I chose to move away from aimpoints and to the EXPS for the reasons mentioned above. I'm using Unity risers to get to 2.26" heights. I find the Donut reticle harder to lose amongst the myriad of light sources seen through the tube. the cleanest reticle I've seen is the holosun donuts. It's as sharp as an illuminated reticle found in a magnified optic.

If you're opposed to Eotech, there's always the gen2 Huey from Vortex. Reports say that it's pretty darn good. My brother just got one direct from Vortex last week, and for $500 and a great warranty, it's hard to ignore. I have a T1 on a KAC skyscraper mount for my sr15, and it's not as forgiving as the EXPS

[Corse]

So I tried to take some measurements off the Rattler. I came up with approx 3.13” for the optic center over bore centerline.

[El Cid]

Alright, @karmapolice has me getting on board with the idea of a new EOTech. I also like the Gen 2 version of the Vortex UH-1 which adds NV settings. I was trying to avoid stealing an optic from another upper or rifle, but I may just take a T-2 or PRO I already have for the time being. I’m in a NV specific class this year so that may change my view as well.

Thanks for all the suggestions and help.

[El Cid]

So I tried to take some measurements off the Rattler. I came up with approx 3.13” for the optic center over bore centerline.

Thanks! This reminds me, earlier today I threw on my Avon mask and with a 1.93” mounted LPV I have it was still too low to be used well.

[Corse]

Thanks! This reminds me, earlier today I threw on my Avon mask and with a 1.93” mounted LPV I have it was still too low to be used well.

I think, if my math is right, that the setup I’m using is close to a 1.93 on an AR. I haven’t tried using a mask, since I don’t have a personal one.