Kimber 5 inch lightweight 9mm?

[fatdog]

Kimber is the same as Keltec to me. Some great design ideas (and bad, e.g. their version of external extractor, resurrecting the Schwartz safety) but for the last 15 years or so cannot be counted on to manufacture anything I would ever trust on the street.

I have known of examples in the hands of people I shared the range with that ran and and equal number that did not in the last couple of decades. Sorta like if you got one they made on Monday or Friday you are probably screwed. I have yet to hear any stories about the new Troy, AL made guns since they started up down there.

The two Kimber 1911's I bought in 1996 were reliable out of the box, series 70 design, ran for many years in USPSA single stack division for tens of thousands of rounds and are currently owned by a pair of friends who report they still run well.

[45dotACP]

This begs a question: Almost every 1911 thread I see involves a good bit of tweaking, replacing, returning, returning again, mag diddling etc.

This seems to hold across all makers, even high end customs-the 3000.00 wait a year guns.

I'd have to add a new ambi-safety to even run the gun, and I fully expect the extractor needs tuning and quite likely several other bits and bobs.

Having said that,and acknowledging the necessity , would this gun at 630.00 in the form factor I like be a completely wrong approach?

A Range Officer I'm looking at is 900.00, a Dan Wesson Valkyrie was offered at 1175.00 lightly used. I've got access to a couple of legit 1911 mechanics

to lay a couple of hundred on.

I dunno.

Lots of negative waves ITT.

When you're buying something entry level, you're basically looking for "good bones". Most will work with some journeyman tinkering, and many can be built into something very nice by someone who is not a journeyman. The Kimber LW models give me pause because of the aluminum or LW frames, but most steel framed kimbers have decent frames and slides and can be a good canvas.

But trust that none of the guns you mentioned are on the level of a LTT 92, and this is from a guy who owns mostly entry level 1911s. Almost nothing is on the level of a LTT until you start getting into higher end target grade handguns like pro-shop CZ's, Sig 226 X5's or P210's, and yes, higher end 9mm 1911's that go for brand new Dan Wesson money and up. They're that good. I've shot some good groups with my fancy dancy new Alchemy Prime...but I've shot groups that were nearly identical with my LTT. It is scary how good that gun is.

For what you get with a Langdon Tactical 92 Elite, there is nothing even close in value. I'd take the LTT92 every day and twice on Sunday over almost any 1911 (except one or two) ever made.

Just my opinion.

If you were on the fence.

[feudist]

For what you get with a Langdon Tactical 92 Elite, there is nothing even close in value. I'd take the LTT92 every day and twice on Sunday over almost any 1911 (except one or two) ever made.

Just my opinion.

If you were on the fence.[/QUOTE]


I actually wasn't until I handled the LTT. Now I got little spikes jammed up in my underwear.

I've got a winning bid on a Range Officer Elite right now, But I don't think it'll hold until the Auction closes.

I think I'ma let it go, if I get outbid.

Then do some thinking about TDA. I haven't had one since 1993. I had a 92SB Type M, but it kept breaking firing pins.

[HCM]

There might be hope that Kimber will get better in the future: https://www.kimberamerica.com/press/...adquarter-2020

Maybe in the long term (though I doubt it) but in the short term EVERY gun company that has moved factories has experienced a notable decline in QC for at least a year (or more). Even Beretta who was previously known for some of the best QC in the business.

[mmc45414]

This begs a question: Almost every 1911 thread I see involves a good bit of tweaking, replacing, returning, returning again, mag diddling etc.

IMO, those are the ones that people, understandably, write about. The 1911s I have recently bought are three Rugers, two of them 9mm. I didn't write much about them because there wasn't much to say. I bought them and took them out and started shooting them, who wants to read about that? I did change recoil springs because they were just goofy light, but they functioned fine before and after I did.

IMO the problem here is the manufacturing methods acceptable in the firearms industry do not really favor the 1911. Modern automobile engines are just assembled from mass produced components without individual fitting, and they reliably run for 200k. I think the automotive industry works in a world of tighter tolerances and modern guns like all the striker pistols are designed to eliminate fitting problems. The barrel in a 1911 locks up on the lugs in a specific spot that need to be in the right spot, a Glock just hits a ramp and is held there by spring tension.

When you're buying something entry level, you're basically looking for "good bones".

And so if the bones are bad, they are bad. If the barrel fitting is lame, material has probably been removed that is not going to come back without TIG.

[HeavyDuty]

IMO, those are the ones that people, understandably, write about. The 1911s I have recently bought are three Rugers, two of them 9mm. I didn't write much about them because there wasn't much to say. I bought them and took them out and started shooting them, who wants to read about that? I did change recoil springs because they were just goofy light, but they functioned fine before and after I did.

IMO the problem here is the manufacturing methods acceptable in the firearms industry do not really favor the 1911. Modern automobile engines are just assembled from mass produced components without individual fitting, and they reliably run for 200k. I think the automotive industry works in a world of tighter tolerances and modern guns like all the striker pistols are designed to eliminate fitting problems. The barrel in a 1911 locks up on the lugs in a specific spot that need to be in the right spot, a Glock just hits a ramp and is held there by spring tension.


And so if the bones are bad, they are bad. If the barrel fitting is lame, material has probably been removed that is not going to come back without TIG.

I’ve told myself that if I were to pick up another 1911 pattern gun (tempting at times, but ultimately unlikely) it would probably be a Ruger because of the price vs. perceived quality issue. If they were to come out with a fastback-style LW 9mm Commander and/or Officer’s it would probably be enough to push me over the edge.

[mmc45414]

I’ve told myself that if I were to pick up another 1911 pattern gun (tempting at times, but ultimately unlikely) it would probably be a Ruger because of the price vs. perceived quality issue. If they were to come out with a fastback-style LW 9mm Commander and/or Officer’s it would probably be enough to push me over the edge.

I have their LW Commander and 5" Target in 9mm. I am tempted by the LW Officers, but if they come out with the CCO combination I am IN!

I think Ruger (DBA Pine Tree Castings) has a lot of experience manufacturing in other industries that expect tighter tolerances, so they can produce parts that can be assembled into firearms that end up being reliable without a lot of screwing around.

[Robinson]

This begs a question: Almost every 1911 thread I see involves a good bit of tweaking, replacing, returning, returning again, mag diddling etc.

This seems to hold across all makers, even high end customs-the 3000.00 wait a year guns.

I'd have to add a new ambi-safety to even run the gun, and I fully expect the extractor needs tuning and quite likely several other bits and bobs.

Having said that,and acknowledging the necessity , would this gun at 630.00 in the form factor I like be a completely wrong approach?

A Range Officer I'm looking at is 900.00, a Dan Wesson Valkyrie was offered at 1175.00 lightly used. I've got access to a couple of legit 1911 mechanics

to lay a couple of hundred on.

I dunno.

Lots of negative waves ITT.

A few years back all I owned were production-line Colts and they worked for the most part - especially the 45s. But it was very common for me to have to complete the job of fitting both safeties and possibly do some other tweaks. Since I have spent the money to upgrade to mostly Colt Custom Shop guns I've had a different ownership experience. I haven't felt a need to mess with any of my CCS guns, and the three I've purchased most recently are really nicely built examples.

So at least in my case, upgrading to the semi-custom level has been a tangible improvement. Costly though.

I've given up on the 9mm 1911 chase after three tries. Mine were pretty good guns to be honest, but I never got past feeling I was one round away from a malfunction. I am much happier shooting 38 Super -- especially now since it is available at not too terrible cost compared to more popular cartridges.

[JAD]

Dan Wesson makes entry level 1911s. I wouldn't go below that mark, except to buy a Series 70 for customization.

[vcdgrips]

I concur w JAD 's logic. I might extend that to a Springfield Armory 5 inch all steel offering as well to serve as a base gun with a serious smith.