Shotguns I saw this week (I promise I won’t do carbines)

[Elwin]

The flexitab upgrade is part of Wilson’s Remington Steal package.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....l-Package-done

https://www.wilsoncombat.com/shotgun-customization/

Thanks for that reminder. I have an old Wingmaster I got to build into an HD gun, and I bought it before learning about the Flextab being a thing. I'm slowly setting it up and plan on just running it without since that's my current option, but once I have it set up as I want it and it's a weird mish-mash of finishes I should send it in to Wilson. It's worth the cost just to refinish the build and get the Flextab kit, never mind whatever else they decide needs replacing.

I'm going to end up with a blued receiver and black-painted barrel, so a refinish is an eventuality. I was thinking I'd eventually track down my own Flextab kit and then get it cerakoated by a local place, but sending it to Wilson for both those things makes more sense.

[entropy]

Honest question here. Aside from specialized applications such as breeching, why would anyone choose to purchase a pump, even a venerable 870, when we have the Beretta 1301 available? It's twice the price - I get it, but aside from that I can't figure out why anyone would give some much as a sideways glance to a pump gun when the 1301 is available. This coming from a guy whose last three shotguns have been pumps and who does not currently own a 1301. (But if I ever do decide that I need a defensive shotgun, the 1301 will be it.) At this stage of the game, does the pump provide any meaningful advantage over a 1301 for defensive use?

Not LE use, but I find the ability to carry it (or store) with a full tube and chamber empty (along with the gross motor skills required to charge) a plus. Mine often rides around in a scabbard on an ATV or tractor, on a rack in the barn, or otherwise carried as a tool. The gross motor skills required to charge it are intuitive to everyone (at least in my family) to include the wife. On the basic level of “simple/stupid” it can’t be beat.

[BillSWPA]

Honest question here. Aside from specialized applications such as breeching, why would anyone choose to purchase a pump, even a venerable 870, when we have the Beretta 1301 available? It's twice the price - I get it, but aside from that I can't figure out why anyone would give some much as a sideways glance to a pump gun when the 1301 is available. This coming from a guy whose last three shotguns have been pumps and who does not currently own a 1301. (But if I ever do decide that I need a defensive shotgun, the 1301 will be it.) At this stage of the game, does the pump provide any meaningful advantage over a 1301 for defensive use?

In some states with restrictive laws, it may be possible to get a pump with a larger magazine capacity than a semiauto.


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[gato naranja]

At this stage of the game, does the pump provide any meaningful advantage over a 1301 for defensive use?

Where a pump gun has the advantage (IMHO) is when it is used as an HD or utility gun that may by necessity be called upon to use ammunition that might not be reliable in a 1301.

There are other factors that are more user-dependent (like adapting to the safety's location, manipulating the charging controls, willingness to keep clean, etc) that might make the 1301 less attractive for some individuals to use for HD compared to a pump shotgun. One size doesn't fit all.

[Navin Johnson]

Honest question here. Aside from specialized applications such as breeching, why would anyone choose to purchase a pump, even a venerable 870, when we have the Beretta 1301 available? It's twice the price - I get it, but aside from that I can't figure out why anyone would give some much as a sideways glance to a pump gun when the 1301 is available. This coming from a guy whose last three shotguns have been pumps and who does not currently own a 1301. (But if I ever do decide that I need a defensive shotgun, the 1301 will be it.) At this stage of the game, does the pump provide any meaningful advantage over a 1301 for defensive use?

We all grew up on pumps and they are simple and intuitive to most of us. Likely many are still in police use. They are at most half the price of a GOOD semi. In my era semi's were at best fussy.

In today's world they are very poor quality. (unless you spend semi type $ to upgrade them) and will likely fade away as better semi's get more accepted. The tactical and hunting community has moved on but the movie community likely won't for some time.

If one knows how to run a semi a pump offers all the advantages of a bolt or lever gun over a semi rifle for defense....

[HCM]

Where a pump gun has the advantage (IMHO) is when it is used as an HD or utility gun that may by necessity be called upon to use ammunition that might not be reliable in a 1301.

There are other factors that are more user-dependent (like adapting to the safety's location, manipulating the charging controls, willingness to keep clean, etc) that might make the 1301 less attractive for some individuals to use for HD compared to a pump shotgun. One size doesn't fit all.

One of the advantages of variable gas systems the 1301 (and the Benelli M4) vs recoil operated semis is I’ve yet to find any ammunition which is not reliable in the 1301.

IME the 1301 and M4 are significantly less “fussy” than traditional semi auto hunting shotguns.

Having experience with pool /high volume range use pump guns, they need cleaning as much (or more) than a 1301.

The only real advantage of Pump guns is price. However as quality police trade in pump guns fade into history even that advantage will be gone.

[Rick R]

Honest question here. Aside from specialized applications such as breeching, why would anyone choose to purchase a pump, even a venerable 870, when we have the Beretta 1301 available?

Not to pile on but for me I’m comfortable with a pump, most particularly a Winchester M12 or Remington 870. I grew up hunting with pumps, went to two police academies where the pump was taught, attended schools and taught schools using 870’s. I’ve demo’d the 1301 Competition (but never the Tactical), owned a Super X Mod 1 for 40 years along with other semi-autos but always come back to the trombone gun. The guys at the club claim I shoot a pump because I’m too impatient to wait on a semi to cycle. I believe they may exaggerate.

[gato naranja]

One of the advantages of variable gas systems the 1301 (and the Benelli M4) vs recoil operated semis is I’ve yet to find any ammunition which is not reliable in the 1301.

Yeah, I was a bit vague there, and the people I know who own 1301's are generally pleased with the low level of ammo drama (hiccups so far seem to be with quite light weights of shot).

What I should have specified was ammunition that might be off-spec, kicked around a bit, or just plain senescent... like the boxes of shells that a late uncle bought at Montgomery Ward. They might not work in an 870 or 500 either, but...

[Tensaw]

Hmmm,… thanks for the perspective gents. I think HCM hit my nail on the head, seems like by the time you up-fit a pump to 1301 functionality, the cost benefit starts to evaporate. The rest of the things that might move someone to choose a pump over a 1301 for defensive use (restrictive legislation, sub-standard ammo, manual of arms) are non-factors *for me*. Perhaps a pump does make a better beater/farm gun than a 1301 - and that is the role my pumps serve in.

My apologies for the thread de-rail.

[LHS]

We all grew up on pumps and they are simple and intuitive to most of us. Likely many are still in police use. They are at most half the price of a GOOD semi. In my era semi's were at best fussy.

FWIW, we're seeing more and more students who haven't grown up on pump guns, but on ARs. To them, the idea of having to manually operate the gun to cycle it is completely foreign.