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Thread: Shotguns I saw this week (I promise I won’t do carbines)

  1. #1
    Site Supporter Erick Gelhaus's Avatar
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    Shotguns I saw this week (I promise I won’t do carbines)

    Last week, at Gunsite, I was one of two assistant instructors for a three day (& one night) shotgun class and then was the lead instructor for two days (& one night) of shotgun tactics. 13 students took the first three days and four of them stayed for the last two.

    The student roster showed:
    Beretta 1301 – 1 (plus mine)
    Remington 870 12ga – 8
    Remington 870 20ga – 1
    Mossberg 500 12ga – 2
    Mossberg 590 - 1

    Round counts
    For the first three days, it was listed as 250 rounds of buckshot,100 rounds birdshot, 100 round of slugs, 50 rounds of pistol. For the last two 100 rounds 00 buckshot – 200 rounds bird - 100 rounds slugs – 50 rounds pistol. For sure, we did not shoot that much handgun ammo; I’d venture we did not use all of the slugs either.

    Unfortunately, I lost the notes I tried to keep so I’m having to go off of memory from here.

    Guns
    Mossberg 500s – One of these went down with a spent shell in the chamber and a locked up action early on. Mortaring it, repeatedly , was unsuccessful at reducing the stoppage. It went to the gunsmith and the student used another 500 for the remaining 2+ days;

    Remington 870 – let’s see, well, one Scattergun sight that had been glued on (instead of soldered, pinned, etc) left the gun twice. We found it the first time in daylight; not the second at night. Several of the 870s got mortared a lot, see the ammo section.
    Remington 870 20ga – the only mechanical issue I noted was that it’s bead sight, from atop the rib, departed the shotgun and disappeared into the high desert on day #3.

    Beretta 1301 – the only issue I noted with the student's was that the magazine tube cap on the Nordic Comp mag extension had loosened several turns. While there were witness marks, that wasn’t the indicator, rather I saw a good sized gap between the cap and the threads on the tube.

    My OLight weapon light mount got knocked into the Unlocked position. Shooting a demonstration on day #2 saw the light launch itself down range. So far the light itself is still functioning fine. No other issues with my 1301.

    Mr Givens mentioned length of pull in another post on P-F. The vast majority of shotgun stocks are still too long. Yes, Magpul’s can be shortened by removing the spacers – too few are. Wood stocks are real easy to cut down but they are no longer common. While the plastic stocks are a bit more difficult to shorten, you can buy the Youth Model or Cadet stocks. My 870s wood stock was measured to Bill Jeans’ gun and cut back in ’95, then I had the recoil pad re-fit. When my old org bought 250+ 870s in ’04, we specified the youth model stocks.

    Optics – Both 1301s had Aimpoints on them (T1, H1) no issues were noted. One 870 had a Holosun on it, I have no recall of any functional issues with it.

    Ammunition
    Remington #8 low base – several of those bases were really soft and extractor claws were ripping through when the actions had to be forced open. Initially, we didn’t have a cleaning rod on the range, which necessitated dis-assembly. Once we had a rod with us, things went much smoother.
    Remington 00B high base – Not sure what the issue with these were. Rough chambers? Several times spent hulls bound up and required greater effort than usual to remove, including mortaring. While I was underwhelmed with their pattern in a traditional barrel, they performed pretty decently through an old Vang barrel.
    Remington Slug – found two from one sleeve where the slugs had been loaded sideways. They made it through QA/QC that way and shipped out to the end user.

    Lights
    Even with a shotgun you envision will be solely for home defense, get a light with significant throw. And, oh yeah, change the batteries.
    One shooter’s unknown, no-name light ran out of oomph before 15 yards – if it had it to begin with as it could not illuminate a decent-sized steel target at that distance.
    Another student, with the Streamlight forearm, wasn’t getting enough usable output; however, I’m told that model of light does perform and the student’s was frequently on in the middle of the day, during strings of fire, etc.
    I think the SF 618 series and its descendants are over-priced & over-weight. You can put together a solid, well-functioning system using a Magpul forearm as the base while saving money & weight.

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    Last edited by Erick Gelhaus; 10-22-2020 at 11:43 AM.

  2. #2
    Site Supporter Lon's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info.

    Not surprised by the Remington ammo issues. I stopped buying Remington ammo years ago because it was shit.
    Formerly known as xpd54.
    The opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect the opinions or policies of my employer.
    www.gunsnobbery.wordpress.com

  3. #3
    Student
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    You do some important things by always giving us this data here and I appreciate that.

    Did anything stand out to you regarding student methods for carrying extra ammunition?

  4. #4
    Hobbyist JAD's Avatar
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    Great post, Erick, thank you. I too have launched a glued-on Scattergun front sight downrange. They are not easy to find without a Geiger counter.

  5. #5
    Site Supporter Erick Gelhaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yung View Post
    You do some important things by always giving us this data here and I appreciate that.

    Did anything stand out to you regarding student methods for carrying extra ammunition?
    You're welcome and thank you for the kind words.

    One classmate, a fellow instructor, had the vertical six shell holders on his belt. Not being horizontally challenged, he commented that they dug into stomach and adversely impacted his being able to get into the squat.

    More commonly, I see students bypassing their usual carry systems and loading directly from wherever. By that, they have a side saddle but the y don't always load from it and then replenish the side saddle from the pocket, dump pouch, etc.

  6. #6
    happy sharps enabler Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Sounds like a good old fashioned pump hootenany! I’m a bit surprised that the Italians aren’t beginning to exert a bit more influence the desert thunder arena, but people get stuck in their ways. Including me.

  7. #7
    Member LHS's Avatar
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    Extraction issues with soft-rimmed cartridges are a recurring theme in our classes too. It seems like the vast majority of cheap ammo is using some really soft material for rims that results in extractors tearing through them, and is often exacerbated by rough chambers especially on newer-production 870s.

    I tend to stick with Winchester AAs for classes for that reason. They're a bit more expensive than the Wally World 100rd 'value packs', but you'll spend more time actually shooting and less time clearing stuck cases on the line.


    Matt Haught
    SYMTAC Consulting LLC
    https://sym-tac.com

  8. #8
    Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erick Gelhaus View Post
    While the plastic stocks are a bit more difficult to shorten, you can buy the Youth Model or Cadet stocks.
    Ramline/Outers/Champion will cease operations soon. If no one picks up the line, we will never see their Cadet stocks again.

  9. #9
    I have the Hogue youth stocks on all of my pump guns. Still haven’t tried to find a solution for my semis (930, Benelli).

    https://www.hogueinc.com/stocks/remi...stock-12-l-o-p

  10. #10
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    Do carbines too!

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