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Thread: No more Purdue Pharma

  1. #11
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hambo View Post
    Or if you need some cash. It's not like you don't know how to sell drugs.
    I'd better check current values...I might be able to get a nice bottle o' bourbon.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

  2. #12
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    That shit killed my first wife. Fuck them

  3. #13
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    Perhaps this thread will shed some light on assigning blame.

    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....-quot-of-drugs

  4. #14
    Purdue Pharma is privately held by the Sackler family, who are still worth $13B. They may face criminal charges but it will be ages before any of them go to jail.


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  5. #15
    Member Greg's Avatar
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    My brother tweaked his back 2 years ago and the doctor wrote him a script for 30 days worth of Oxy.

    His pharmacist wife said "Oh HELL no". I think he took Aleve.
    Don’t blame me. I didn’t vote for that dumb bastard.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyDuty View Post
    Mixed emotions about this. Oxy allowed my late wife to have some quality of life for the last decade of her existence, but so many other people have been damaged. I personally put the blame on the prescribing doctors, but Perdue really strongarmed them and misrepresented the addiction issues.

    I have mixed feelings about this too. I have been lobbied many times to prescribe a drug X or drug Y but I have never been approached by Purdue or anyone else who sold Oxy. Unless Purdue was the only source of medical evidence in regards to safety and also fudged that data, I am having a hard time fully allocating the blame to them. I guess I would have to see the examples of predatory marketing practices to understand that better.

    Separately. just today I listened the NPR interviewing an anti-Purdue / anti-Sackler advocate man whose 18 year old daughter died from taking one single pill of Oxy that belonged to a cancer victim. Felt ery sorry for his kid dying but didn't feel that his personal issue with Purdue had much merit, and I think that anti-Purdue advocacy is full of people like him.
    Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.

  7. #17
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    I have mixed feelings about this too. I have been lobbied many times to prescribe a drug X or drug Y but I have never been approached by Purdue or anyone else who sold Oxy. Unless Purdue was the only source of medical evidence in regards to safety and also fudged that data, I am having a hard time fully allocating the blame to them. I guess I would have to see the examples of predatory marketing practices to understand that better.
    Fully, probably not. The catalyst and major player? Definitely.

    See: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....-quot-of-drugs

    Highlights include:

    Quotes from prior settlements:

    “The Defendants, acting in concert with others, embarked on a major campaign in which they used branded and unbranded marketing to disseminate the messages that pain was under-treated and ‘there was a low risk of abuse and a low danger’ of prescribing opioids”.

    “False, misleading, and dangerous marketing campaigns have caused exponentially increasing rates of addiction, overdose deaths.”

    “In 2001, Defendants were advised by Defendants’ own hired scientific advisory board that many of the primary marketing messages Defendants used to promote opioids in general, and Duragesic [the company’s high-strength drug] specifically, were misleading and should not be disseminated.”

    “Defendants additionally executed their strategy of targeting high-opioid-prescribing physicians in Oklahoma, including doctors who ultimately faced disciplinary proceedings or criminal prosecution.”

    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    No, sue drug makers for intentionally marketing and encouraging the use of drugs in a way they knew would lead to higher addiction rates. Not even close to "make and market prescription drugs". I know .gov is always the bad guy and the company is always the good guy in the conservative world but go take a look at previous law suits and settlements to see what the angels at the poor drug companies were doing. Intentionally recommending dose amounts and schedules that would cause a small window of withdrawal each day, for example. They intentionally made it harder to get off the drugs, and everyone else is paying for their decision to do so via the fucking mess the opiode crisis has made. They should be held accountable and pay for some of the mess they made.
    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    They can't market them in that fashion legally, you mean. My wife was a pharmacist. I'm not ignorant to the pharma reps "hinting" at off label uses or how they are compensated. I'm also not ignorant to the multitude of legal settlements by companies that have done exactly that.

    And, yes, the makers of Oxycontin did intentionally create windows of withdrawal. They had plentiful internal documentation that 12 hour dosing was often insufficient, yet they had marketed it as a 12-hour drug and feared the effect on profits if they deviated from that. The information is not secret and is not new, and is why they paid out.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...al_settlements for those who might question if this does, in fact, happen.



    https://www.latimes.com/projects/oxycontin-part1/



    Etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    There seems to be a fair amount of misinformation when it comes to this topic. Here is the Cliff Notes version of where we’ve been and where we are at.

    1) Prior to the mid-80’s, it was exceedingly rare for opiates to be prescribed on a long term for non-cancer pain. During that time, a small cadre of physicians were employed by the pharmaceutical industry to reshape the lay and medical community’s opinions of opioids in preparation for several drugs that would enter the market within a decade.

    2) In the late 80’s, this cadre of doctors published a few cases series of patients who received relatively short duration of opiate therapy without apparent consequences. Keep in mind that case series are some of the lowest forms of scientific evidence and there were no randomized trials looking at long term safety. However, these poor quality studies were cited by these doctors who were being employed by Pharma as evidence that the standard of care had shifted, and that opiates were safe for long term use in chronic, non-cancer pain. MS Contin was released in 1987 as the first oral long-acting opiate agent.

    3) By the early 90s, a massive amount of money was pouring into professional societies (really shadow entities of the pharmaceutical industry) that were petitioning regulatory bodies such as Center for Medicare Services and the Joint Commission that accredits hospitals to become more aggressive with treating all forms of pain with opiates. Hence pain became a vital sign, doctors were sued and disciplined for not treating pain with opiates, and the medical system was primed for what was about to happen next.

    4) In 1995 OxyContin was approved and within 2 years was one of the top 2 or 3 most prescribed medications in America.

    5) By the early 2000s, portions of the medical community started to realize there might be a problem. Although OxyContin was thought to have low abuse potential, reports of it being injected were starting to crop up. Moreover, certain pharmacies were distributing massive amounts of the drug to relatively small populations. The manufacturer, Purdue Pharma, was aware of the irregularities and suppressed the information.

    6) In 2010, a new, less abuse prone form of OxyContin was approved. Unfortunately, several other abuse-prone opiates were released (I.e. Opana). As for distribution, states without any controlled substance monitoring such as FL saw pill mill pain clinics flourish along I95. In the parking lots were license plates from OH, TN, WV, etc. Also at this time we were noticing a massive increase in opiate-related overdoses, opiate-complicated births, and mental health issues.

    7) By 2014, everyone in the medical community knew there was a problem. Deaths from overdoses were at 60,000 and America was still seeing more and more total morphine equivalents being prescribed.

    8) Between 2015 and present time we have seen a paradigm shift. Several studies were published including the first randomized trial of opiates vs. non-opiates for chronic pain. Known as the SPACE Trial, opiates were no more effective than non-opiates at controlling chronic pain and were associated with more adverse events - so much for patients “needing” opiates. Other studies showed that a course beyond just 5 days of opiate therapy was associated with future chronic opioid use and dependence, and most surgical patients need just 7-10 of opioid meds to control their symptoms.

    9) By 2016, most states had significantly tightened their oversight of opiate prescribing. The cartels stepped in and began to fill the void with cheap heroin and fentanyl. A recent survey of heroin addicts showed that 70% began their road to opiate addiction with a prescription.

    So, this was a system wide failure of the pharmaceutical industry, medical profession, federal and state regulatory bodies, and general public. It is good that the pharmaceutical industry is being held to account. Now it’s time to continue looking at outlier prescribers and hold them to account if they cannot show proper accounting and precautions. Finally, a complete overhaul of CMS and Joint Commission needs to be undertaken and scrutinized on how core measures and practice guidelines are developed and applied to the industry.
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  8. #18
    Revolvers Revolvers 1911s Stephanie B's Avatar
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    I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, I would like to see the heads of a few of the Sackler family on pikes outside of Purdue Pharma's HQ as a warning to the rest of the industry.

    On the other hand, I have a good friend who is living with a bad spinal condition. Her life is pretty much filled with constant pain. It really limits what she can do. She is being seen by a pain management clinic; when she first was seen by them, she showed me the agreement that they said she had to sign. Pee tests, pill counts; they were going to treat her like one of the drug-abusing parents that I would have been appointed to represent in a child abuse/neglect custody case (back before I retired). She went along with it, as her primary care doctor nowadays won't prescribe almost anything (he's more of a medical direction booth "go see this guy", "go see that guy").

    But it bothers the hell out of me that's what we've come to, that people who do have a need for pain meds are being treated by criminals. And there is a part of me that hopes that those folks in the pain clinics who are so regarding their patients get to someday really find out how much fun and joy chronic pain brings to one's life.
    If we have to march off into the next world, let us walk there on the bodies of our enemies.

  9. #19
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie B View Post

    But it bothers the hell out of me that's what we've come to, that people who do have a need for pain meds are being treated by criminals. And there is a part of me that hopes that those folks in the pain clinics who are so regarding their patients get to someday really find out how much fun and joy chronic pain brings to one's life.
    I don't know, but I doubt the folks at the clinic are coming up with these rules just to make the lives of their patients tougher. Due to the "pill mill" industry, it's likely an effort to keep on the right side of the law. Nobody likes that the good allergy drugs are controlled now, but lots of folks like the vastly reduced meth industry and nearly complete disappearance of meth labs in my state to a 20 year low point. Fewer then 20 kids were found living in conditions with a meth lab last year state wide vs some 3,000 at the peak. The Oxy crisis has been incredibly damaging to our society so I understand the accountability measures even if the patients feel that they are being "treated like a criminal".
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  10. #20
    Site Supporter ccmdfd's Avatar
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    If I read the article correctly;

    Oxy will still be made, but now by a government owned, run company.

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