40mm Launchers for Patrol

[Lon]

Who’s got em? Seen any issues with them? What munitions do you use? Who is trained to use them?

We’ve had good luck w them for SWAT and have had several occasions where they would have benefited patrol so we’re planning on putting a couple on the street. Sgt’s and SWAT guys (already trained) trained to use them to start. Single shot launchers, slings, lights, red dots and Tuff Products stock side saddles. Thinking about just issuing patrol the eXact Impact standard sponge round with a minimum standoff of 5 FEET.

https://www.defense-technology.com/w...ated-Specs.pdf

I think eventually it would be great to replace all our LL shotguns (we have one in each marked car) with these. We don’t use shotguns for anything other than LL and I think these would be easier for people to use.

[BobM]

The short stand off to me is a big plus. We have a few people trained so far. I’ve taken it out many times but haven’t had to fire it yet. We did have a night shift fire it at a guy they would have been justified in shooting. The guy moved quickly and was hit in the hand, but he gave up after that.

[BobM]

Our instructor is leaving LE for the private sector at the end of the year so I’m going to try to get everyone trained before he leaves. Then we need to select a new instructor and get him sent to training.

[Erick Gelhaus]

My old org has them in patrol - Sgts plus SWAT and tactical team (crowd control) deputies, as well as most FTOs, were trained on them. While I had no problem employing the launcher as a supervisor, even when running a call, Im' not sure assigning them to the sergeant is the best idea. But if you don't go that route, the org needs to get enough of them out that at least one will be available for every call that needs one.

[Lon]

The short stand off to me is a big plus. We have a few people trained so far. I’ve taken it out many times but haven’t had to fire it yet. We did have a night shift fire it at a guy they would have been justified in shooting. The guy moved quickly and was hit in the hand, but he gave up after that.

How many are you running? Just one or multiple?

[BobM]

How many are you running? Just one or multiple?

We have one that is supposed to go with the supervisor and another for a patrol officer. There are currently few officers trained, that one rarely goes out.

[MI Law]

We have a Sage 37mm Deuce with K08 "soft tip" rounds. I think the stand off is 5 yards. We recently had a deployment on a barricaded FA suspect (solo barricaded suspect after the victim was rescued) that came out armed with a knife then returned inside before we had enough officers on-scene to form an arrest team and LL plan. He came out with a knife a second time and we had a LL and arrest plan ready. He refused to comply and was hit once with a 37mm round in the back of the thigh - first round missed and second round hit (benefit of the Deuce), but he was able to retreat the five or so feet into the house. The third time he came out was the final time and he came out with his bags packed for the hospital and jail - this was partly because of the 37mm round hitting him and partly because of negotiators. The 37mm round that hit him changed his attitude during the standoff - he didn't want to get hit again.

We carry the launcher in a vehicle that has special equipment in it (breaching/less lethal/etc.) and is on the road 24/7. We are considering adding a second LL launcher to the supervisor car. We aren't adding it to that car because we want a supervisor to man it, it is in that car because a supervisor should be on a call where it is needed. The supervisor should assign the LL launcher to an officer as part of a larger LL plan. IMHO, training supervisors on using it, not officers, is a bad idea because the supervisors should be focused on the overall tactical planning, leadership, and management of the call instead of being tied to the LL response. Agency size and resources dictate, but that's what works for us.

[Lon]

We carry the launcher in a vehicle that has special equipment in it (breaching/less lethal/etc.) and is on the road 24/7. We are considering adding a second LL launcher to the supervisor car. We aren't adding it to that car because we want a supervisor to man it, it is in that car because a supervisor should be on a call where it is needed. The supervisor should assign the LL launcher to an officer as part of a larger LL plan. IMHO, training supervisors on using it, not officers, is a bad idea because the supervisors should be focused on the overall tactical planning, leadership, and management of the call instead of being tied to the LL response. Agency size and resources dictate, but that's what works for us.

I have a very similar way of thinking. Our Sgt vehicle is the only one that’s pretty much on the street 24/7. 3 of our 4 platoons have SWAT guys assigned to them so the Supervisor can (And should) hand off the 40 to them. But the supervisor can use it in a pinch if need be. Between SWAT and Sgt’s that’ll give us just under half the patrol section who are trained on them to start.

I’d really like to have a car set up like yours as far as special equipment, but can’t get the command staff on board. Yet.

Thanks for the input.

[Lon]

But if you don't go that route, the org needs to get enough of them out that at least one will be available for every call that needs one.

Agreed and that’s where I’m hoping we end up soon. I'd seriously consider trading in all of our 870 LL shotguns for however many 40mm launchers we can get. Even if that meant we only had them in every other car.

[secondstoryguy]

If I was equipping a department with LL gear I would go 40mm all day long and twice on Sunday. We use both 40mm and 12g less lethal launchers (the 40mm reserved for SWAT) and I've seen a lot of people get smacked with both. The 40mm is much more effective. It hits harder and is more accurate(I can easily keep the long range 40mm rounds on a reduced IPSC target at 50 yards). Also, being a 40mm its idiot proof because you can't possibly load it with live rounds. In a perfect world I would get a 40mm multi-launcher but the singles work well, are light/short and can actually be loaded pretty quickly. Due to liability I much prefer them with some form of red dot sight. The 40mm is good for taking out lights too.