Excelling in competition does not mean they are good for duty or carry. A local SWAT team got themselves some fancy JP rifles and have had nothing but problems.Originally Posted by Zincwarrior
As for the P320. It might be good, it might not. My question is: With so many vetted options that don’t have the black cloud over them, why choose the P320?
I suspect that's where most of us are. I think the P320 has huge potential-and SIG might, or might not have successfully sorted out the safety issues. Some transparency from the mother ship would be nice, but that's unlikely.
There's also the potential bent ejector/structurally compromised FCU chassis caused by using longer magazines than are intended for a given grip module. While the solution is simple (only use the specific magazines matched to a given grip module), that can somewhat detract from the flexibility of the pistol-the significance of that is up to a given shooter. Suffice it to say that I'm glad I use an X-Carry grip with my full-size magazines, instead of using the larger magazines in my OEM Compact grip module...(and there are other benefits to the X-Carry module as well).
For most, I suspect that the advantages of the P320 will be outweighed by the simplicity and established safety and reliability of some of the P320's contenders, such as the Gen5 Glock and HK VP. Organizationally, unless you (and SIG) are considering the FCU to be essentially a disposable/replaceable item as a whole, the speed and simplicity of Glock's detailed disassembly and reassembly is really hard to beat.
I like, appreciate and enjoy my October 2019 production P320. But my trust is somewhat tempered the complexity of the FCU, and the issues attendant with it.
Best, Jon
My biggest problem with the P320 is it doesn't have a gadget or a hammer.
That has also been a concern of mine, but now that I've had a chance to play with the manual safety version, it is not. Sig did a good job with the safety's feel and location. Given the trigger's short throw, I think the manual safety is more desirable than a Gadget.
It's becoming the AR15 of handguns. P320s are enormously popular everywhere but here. I have one myself, and it has always worked perfectly for me. SIG did manage to piss me off quite badly by keeping my gun for almost six months during the recall, but I have nothing but positives about the gun itself.
I had failure to extract with two P320 compacts/carry. Sig took them back for warranty fix and about a year later the same problem. I purchased new extractors and assemblies from MGW and no more issues. Cheap fix but something Sig should've done.
Your last line answered your question. Buy a non-early Beretta. Proven.(I do not own any Beretta firearms, so this is not fan-talk.)
Seriously, though, buy proven technology, when one’s life is at stake. And, Berettas are “growing on me.” A local high-end gun store is continually tempting me, with Wilson-ized Berettas. They have 90-day lay-away. It is just a matter of time.
Actually, before switching platforms, try a G17, G19x, or G45, and see if that extra bit of stability, where the lower rear portion of the grip contacts the heel of your hand, enables better personal performance. I have plenty of room, on a G19, for my skinny fingers, but, regardless of the weapon system, will shoot it better if the rear of the grip reaches all the way to the deepest part of the heel of my hand. This is definitely the case, for me, with the G19, compared to longer-gripped Glocks. The only numerically quantifiable targets I shot have shot, with time constraints, were at my PD quals, and I do not remember the numbers, as that was 2014-2017, but the difference was quite noticeable.
Folks I know/know love the G19 and G23, but with VERY few exceptions, they all seem/seemed to shoot the G17 or G22, or other full-length-grip Glock, much better.
I can conceal a G17’s grip as well as a G19’s grip. In either case, the most-noticeable “printing” is the outer rear corner of the rear of the slides that pokes outward against the cover garment, which is the same, for either weapon. (There is an exception: At AIWB, a G17-length grip is more noticeable, but I gave up trying to conceal ANY wide-body pistol at AIWB, so the difference is moot.)
Retar’d LE. Kinesthetic dufus.
Don’t tread on volcanos!
I have no doubt the P320 works as it "goes bang when trigger is pulled" the vast majority of the time. I also have no doubt that the number of people shot by their own pistol in situations that other models would not have fired in is higher then I would consider acceptable in a fighting pistol. I know with great certainty Sig knew about the problem much earlier then it was made public (not by them, btw) and kept the information hidden with NDAs for the people that knew.
"Works" is only one criteria for me. I wanted the P320 to be a success. I own exactly two personally owned Glocks while owning three P220s alone, plus a large contingent of other "classic" Sigs. I am not a hater or fanboi. I'll stick with Glock for striker fired because not only do they "work perfectly for me" they are proven drop safe, simpler to maintain, Gen 5/M has been more accurate in T&E, and the SCD option is the cherry on the sundae.
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
Let me preface this by stating that I am a pessimist and probably should be ignored.
The safety feel and position is quite good. The one thing that irks me is, it only blocks the trigger from moving. It does not restrict sear movement. I'm no mechanical engineer but, it would make sense to me that if you're going to block one you should probably block both. If they just did that, theoretically, I would think that should eliminate the possibility of any AD / drop issues with at least the manual safety versions.
My hope for the P320 concept is that a manufacturer like H&K or Glock will build a better "P320".
The Heckler VP320 shall offer 1 modular grip, because the first one, das ist perfektion. Also offered is 17 modular trigger options, all LEM variants because LEM trigger ist das beste trigger! Additionally, the barrel will now include THREE o-rings for 13% increased accuracy. MSRP is $699 and will be sold exclusively through Gunbroker at 186% over MSRP ($2k).
The Glock Gen320 series will offer 2 modular grip frames in all sizes. The first is a standard 22 degree grip angle, which is perfect. The second is a 45 degree grip angle, which is also perfect. No other modular options are offered or needed.
Lastly, as a classic SIG aficionado, when I saw the P320 AXG, I was like:
In all seriousness, I would love to see another manufacturer take up the torch for the modular pistol concept.
Administrator for PatRogers.org
Maybe Beretta will give it a try.
Reply With Quote