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Thread: SF starts non-police behavioral response

  1. #11
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    Good F@#$%& luck with that. The City's protocol for years has been to send in police first to establish scene safety in medical calls involving persons in crisis. I'm sure its gonna go great now that the Jakies are the ones who are gonna have to use force to gain compliance and control at the scene. And we've always had such a surplus of mental health "professionals" available for these calls....now they finally have something to do other than sit in the batcave and wait for the red phone to ring!

  2. #12
    I hope it works. I actually foresee it being beneficial in many instances as it may very well remove the adversarial reaction, and by that I mean the adversarial reaction from the individual rather than the cop. I'll be interested to see the stats on the successes, the reduction in uses of force, and the number of times the teams ultimately end up calling for the cops to come save the day. Maybe that will be actual valuable information that will lead to an effective approach.
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

  3. #13
    Site Supporter HeavyDuty's Avatar
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    I hope it works, too. And I suspect (or hope) PD will be around the corner on these calls to provide backup.
    Ken

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  4. #14
    Site Supporter Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    "Dispatch, this is EMT Squad 51. We need immediate police back up..."
    The response when you need help is always what I call the "boop of death". It's the sound your radio makes when frequencies/talk groups are full.

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    Fire prevention measures has been so effective over the past few decades that the majority of "fire" calls now are for EMS. Almost all professional firefighters are cross-trained as EMTs and many are paramedics.
    I believe it was Phoenix FD that had a program like this in the '90s. A FD paramedic and IIRC a mental health intern. Not sure how it worked out or if they still have it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jlw View Post
    I hope it works. I actually foresee it being beneficial in many instances as it may very well remove the adversarial reaction, and by that I mean the adversarial reaction from the individual rather than the cop. I'll be interested to see the stats on the successes, the reduction in uses of force, and the number of times the teams ultimately end up calling for the cops to come save the day. Maybe that will be actual valuable information that will lead to an effective approach.
    One sheriff's office here started a program using a deputy and a mental health professional. I haven't heard anything more than that. I really think the team concept is a good one, but should include a LEO. Medic can clear them, LE for security, mental health people for warm fuzzy shit.
    "Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA

  5. #15
    As someone who has spent years working in mental health and training hundreds of people in crisis intervention, I can tell you it is going to ve tough to recruit, train and retain people for this. The EMTs will he easier to recruit, since there is a large pool of people with street experience. In mental health, there is a minuscule percentage of licensed practitioners who have worked outside the confines of an office or program building. Even rarer are the people who have the temperament to work with combative clients. When I worked in day treatment, the typical master's level licensed therapist lasted 18 months, and that is in a lot safer environment than this will be. I hope this works out, but it is going to be challenging.

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  6. #16
    Member Gadfly's Avatar
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    The people who think is a good ideal are people who have never worked with a guy who has stripped but naked and smeared his own poop all over himself because the toaster told him to do it...

    Some calls will be easier than others... just depressed teens. But until you have dealt with the naked homeless schizophrenic gentleman at 4am, you have no clue how useless “reasoning” with some people can be.

    I hope it works out. I really do. But the fact that people think police response to these issue grew spontaneously out of a vacuum is laughable. Like, don’t you realize they have tried this in the 60s, 70’s, etc... it never caught on. In cop terms, we call that a clue. But THIS time, it will work, because WE are so much smarter and more enlightened that past generations of reform minded folks... #Hubris

    Let’s see that program in 2 years. I hope I am pleasantly surprised by the success, and that history is proven wrong...
    “A gun is a tool, Marian; no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.” - Shane

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Gadfly View Post
    Some calls will be easier than others... just depressed teens. But until you have dealt with the naked homeless schizophrenic gentleman at 4am, you have no clue how useless “reasoning” with some people can be.
    Exactly. If they can get folks with street experience who have no illusions about what they’re walking into, the program could do some good. If they get naive, optimistic interns it’ll be a disaster.

  8. #18
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    Since I taught lots of folks going into the mental health professions, I might opine about two things:

    1. I agree that most folks aren't trained for entering crisis situations that might have potential violence. Some do that have worked in institutions but to get the out of the streets might be hard.

    2. How will gender interact? Mental health is becoming a female majority field. I know there are quite successful female officers. However, will the pool of female mental health professionals be interested in such a risky position. Info on gender: https://www.apa.org/gradpsych/2011/01/cover-men

    Most of the grad mental health professionals I though were female and from rather 'safe' backgrounds. There were female vet, sure, some law but the majority were middle class or higher.

  9. #19
    Site Supporter hufnagel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    If they staff the squads with experienced, street-smart people I'd like to think it could be a positive change. It's not going to be perfect, but if they can handle a good percentage of these calls instead of the police it'll be a good thing.

    Nobody's happy with the current state of affairs. What's the alternative?
    Re-open mental heath institutes and stuff the crazy fuckers back in there where they belong?
    Were there problems with the old institutes? Sure. Shutting them down and turning all the crazies loose on society was NOT the best solution.
    Rules to live by: 1. Eat meat, 2. Shoot guns, 3. Fire, 4. Gasoline, 5. Make juniors
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  10. #20
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    My hospital staffs both a public safety office with guards who carry restraints, guns and tasers, and a behavioral response team who have the judgement and clinical background to deal with someone in an acutely psychotic state.

    When it comes to someone in a full blown mental health crisis, it is my sense that there are times when the right communication works and other times when it doesn't and you to do a soft takedown for their own safety and that of others.

    If such a department were to exist they'd need either both the police and the psychological experts, or they'd need someone like @03RN who is both a trained badass and an experienced clinician. I may be wrong, but those types are in somewhat short supply.


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