A Man vs. A Movement. What's at stake. Trump v. Biden

[jrm]

Physician heal thyself.

The ones (physically) attacking those who have a difference of opinion seem to be coming from the ranks of the left and Biden supporters.

The ones trying to limit freedom of speech, assembly and associated rights and events...again...seem to be coming from the the ranks of the left and Biden supporters.

Those of us who support Trump, because he is not Biden (nor Harris) nor represent the Democrat Party agenda, are not a monolithic group marching in lockstep. Many of us feel compelled to support him because the alternative is worse...perhaps far worse.

Who's doing the demonizing? The arson? The looting? The assaults?

Too many not all Biden supporters are acting violently and repressively. Too many not all Trump supporters are acting violently and repressively. They both need to take the above advice. My comment was about the ineffectiveness of the video and it’s content. Neither side is perfect in this mess we find ourselves in and I can understand choosing a different least bad than I do. I do not think the straw man built up in that video is representative of the vast majority of Biden voters nor is it likely to change many if any minds. Trump is perfect for this time and Trump is almost providential does not strike me as statements you would identify with and it is that aspect that I find most troubling. I don’t think that puts any enmity between you and I. However, any one who does believe that Trump is some sort of bastion of American principles or capable of acting in any manner other than what he believes to be in his best interest at any particular point in time I do find some measure of fault with. If he is your less bad choice we disagree no more no less. If he is your less bad when he is gone we will find common cause again I am certain. If he is your savior I fear we may never be reconciled despite how much reconciliation I long for.

[jh9]

People seem to be mistaking a partisan pep rally for logical persuasive argument.

Yes. But, we're in the home stretch of an election. That's par for the course.

The arguments have been made. Early voting has already started. Now it's just a matter of moving the rhetorical axis from logos to pathos and beating the drum to squeeze the last of the voters out of the tube and into the booth. The article/video wasn't intended to be persuasive to anyone not already persuaded.

[HCM]

I am not sure how some dude saying the BLM boogey man is going to get me and that Trump is a scum bag but is sent by God to save America is supposed to be a persuasive argument to anyone not already behind Trump. People seem to be mistaking a partisan pep rally for logical persuasive argument. This is not the argument that is going to save Trump or the Republican Party. Doubling down on it is the surest way to lose this cycle and the next. Quit vesting the future of America on Donald Trump and find a decent human being to run. Quit demonizing everyone you disagree with. Attack their ideas where they are wrong or questionable in their conclusions without simply dismissing the entirety of their concerns as being non existent.

Donald Trump aside...

Your assertion that the threat posed by BLM and the radical socialist wing of the Democratic Party is a “boogeyman” implies it is not a real threat. This is not true.

BLM the organization is a Marxist front. Traditionally communist / Marxist influence was anathema in US politics, even in the Democratic Party. Those days are over. The radical wing of the party is openly socialist and their even further left Marxist allies have cloaked themselves in the third rail of American politics- race. It’s a brilliant move on the part of the Marxists.



As Maya Angelou said so well, when someone tells you who they are, believe them.

Left wing extremists are just as much of a threat as right wing extremists. The first step to making sure the US does not evolve into a version of 1990s Yugoslavia is to acknowledge that there are people on both sides with bad intentions and the fervent desire to carry them out.

[Half Moon]

Donald Trump aside...

Your assertion that the threat posed by BLM and the radical socialist wing of the Democratic Party is a “boogeyman” implies it is not a real threat. This is not true.

BLM the organization is a Marxist front. Traditionally communist / Marxist influence was anathema in US politics, even in the Democratic Party. Those days are over. The radical wing of the party is openly socialist and their even further left Marxist allies have cloaked themselves in the third rail of American politics- race. It’s a brilliant move on the part of the Marxists.



As Maya Angelou said so well, when someone tells you who they are, believe them.

Left wing extremists are just as much of a threat as right wing extremists. The first step to making sure the US does not evolve into a version of 1990s Yugoslavia is to acknowledge that there are people on both sides with bad intentions and the fervent desire to carry them out.

Except we the cited speech tries to draw an equivalence between a violent fringe and the Democratic mainstream. As well draw an equivalence between the Whitmer kidnap plotters and all Republicans. I don't believe either to be true though, who knows, if we keep aggressively othering our fellow citizens maybe we can get there yet.

[jh9]

The first step to making sure the US does not evolve into a version of 1990s Yugoslavia is to acknowledge that there are people on both sides with bad intentions and the fervent desire to carry them out.

Honestly I think the first step would be to get rid of social media altogether since that's the source of the balkanization being turned up to 11. Human beings are too easily addicted to anything that gets a squirt of dopamine. Having youtube videos of people passionately saying things they already believe and a facebook feed turned echo chamber to reinforce it all with a hit of the happy chemical at the end of it is going to be responsible for a lot of societal ills in the coming years.

We are seeing the same tools and techniques used to radicalize ISIS nutjobs in the not too distant past now being rolled out for use by the general public.

What could go wrong?

[blues]

Too many not all Biden supporters are acting violently and repressively. Too many not all Trump supporters are acting violently and repressively. They both need to take the above advice. My comment was about the ineffectiveness of the video and it’s content. Neither side is perfect in this mess we find ourselves in and I can understand choosing a different least bad than I do. I do not think the straw man built up in that video is representative of the vast majority of Biden voters nor is it likely to change many if any minds. Trump is perfect for this time and Trump is almost providential does not strike me as statements you would identify with and it is that aspect that I find most troubling. I don’t think that puts any enmity between you and I. However, any one who does believe that Trump is some sort of bastion of American principles or capable of acting in any manner other than what he believes to be in his best interest at any particular point in time I do find some measure of fault with. If he is your less bad choice we disagree no more no less. If he is your less bad when he is gone we will find common cause again I am certain. If he is your savior I fear we may never be reconciled despite how much reconciliation I long for.

I filter out the "providential" and the "perfect" and most of the rhetoric and evaluate the core message and kernels of information within. Rhetoric is rhetoric, regardless of its source.

I find nothing perfect nor providential in any man, let alone politician...so filters are always engaged.

There is no enmity between you and me...and I've long made it clear that I find Trump a bitter pill to swallow for any number of reasons.

That said, I continue to find him the more palliative option available to us, and if that choice doesn't immediately cure the ills facing the country, it will be less harmful than the alternative, imho, which will bring on its demise in more rapid fashion.

We can agree to disagree without rancor.

[HCM]

Except we the cited speech tries to draw an equivalence between a violent fringe and the Democratic mainstream. As well draw an equivalence between the Whitmer kidnap plotters and all Republicans. I don't believe either to be true though, who knows, if we keep aggressively othering our fellow citizens maybe we can get there yet.

The cited speech does not. The speech claims the radical wing of the Democratic Party is taking control of the party. That is not the same thing.

There is, and has been for several years, a battle within the Democratic Party. The radical wing of the party is waging that battle because they believe (correctly) having their minority control the party Is more effective than trying to create a third-party socialist party.

One divergence between the parties for decades has been the Republicans are much more upfront about acknowledging right wing extremists as a potential threat and keeping them distanced and isolated from the party.

Finally, the fact that you equate the Witten or kidnap platters with the Republicans shows you are ill-informed.
The Whitmer kidnap platters are Boogaloo boys, meaning they are anarchist extremist libertarians. They are anti-government and anti-constitution. They hate Trump as the head of the federal government just as much as they hate governor Whitmer.

If you want to tie them to a presidential candidate that’s going to be Jo Jorgensen.

[HCM]

Honestly I think the first step would be to get rid of social media altogether since that's the source of the balkanization being turned up to 11. Human beings are too easily addicted to anything that gets a squirt of dopamine. Having youtube videos of people passionately saying things they already believe and a facebook feed turned echo chamber to reinforce it all with a hit of the happy chemical at the end of it is going to be responsible for a lot of societal ills in the coming years.

We are seeing the same tools and techniques used to radicalize ISIS nutjobs in the not too distant past now being rolled out for use by the general public.

What could go wrong?

Never happen but I agree it’s a big problem.

[RoyGBiv]

Finally got through the full video in the OP.
I agree with most of it, but, disagree very much that Trump is the "perfect" guy for the times.
You can have courage and be unafraid, and still be "Presidential".
I think the lack of his being Presidential is the missing ingredient in shutting down the insurgency of hyphenated-Americanism.
He's far too easy to discredit based on outward behavior. His behavior also distracts (greatly) from his substance on the issues.
You can be tough, bold, even brash, without being a dick.

[jrm]

Donald Trump aside...

Your assertion that the threat posed by BLM and the radical socialist wing of the Democratic Party is a “boogeyman” implies it is not a real threat. This is not true.

BLM the organization is a Marxist front. Traditionally communist / Marxist influence was anathema in US politics, even in the Democratic Party. Those days are over. The radical wing of the party is openly socialist and their even further left Marxist allies have cloaked themselves in the third rail of American politics- race. It’s a brilliant move on the part of the Marxists.



As Maya Angelou said so well, when someone tells you who they are, believe them.

Left wing extremists are just as much of a threat as right wing extremists. The first step to making sure the US does not evolve into a version of 1990s Yugoslavia is to acknowledge that there are people on both sides with bad intentions and the fervent desire to carry them out.

I believe but certainly could be wrong that popular support for BLM is derived from legitimate complaints about policing that lend credibility to questionable and illegitimate claims of issues with policing. There are problems in police culture. I cannot begin to say they predominate the police force. But a look at the legal system in White county Tennessee can show you that problems exist. The problems I know of in that system are a judge who was offering get out of jail free cards in exchange for vasectomies, a sheriff on camera encouraging his deputies to lie on their reports about the facts of a vehicle chase, and a deputy siccing his canine on an unarmed woman because she hid from police while they searched for her. That last one was commands to bite given repeatedly rather than effectuating an arrest not simply using the dog to find her and she got bit. None of these issues have a racial animus that I am aware of but none the less they demonstrate an issue with the culture in that geographical area. These issues do need to be addressed and it is a shame if it takes marxists to call for this redress.

That was a long way of saying BLM is about police brutality in the popular zeitgeist as I see it. If the legitimate issues are addressed I am doubtful that the other portions of that movement will enjoy the same support. In my calculations fears of BLM destroying America are overblown because the true threats will not find support after the legitimate portions of their movement have been addressed.