Extended arms (not locked) vs Bent Arms

[RJ]

If one is unorthodox, what do we call two, ununorthodox?

Well...obviously...it’s a...Paradox.



(Sorry. I’ll get my coat.)

[Packy]

Very true in rock climbing where (in the past) women ordinarily didn't rely on trying to muscle their way up a pitch. Nowadays, some of the women are (probably) stronger than the men, so maybe not as prevalent.

I think a lot also has to do with our own individual body mechanics as well...I know I have issues related to shoulder injuries from climbing / mountaineering that make certain positions uncomfortable, or drawing from certain positions as well.

Women excell in Climbing I think is that because women are not heavier than most men.

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[Sal Picante]

YVK and I were discussing this tonight. He was looking at videos of Max Michel and Christian Sailor and both seem to always have bent legs but fully extended arms. I just went and looked at a video of Ben Stoeger shooting a stage at the class I had with him this summer, and his arms are fully extended. No turtle or hyper extension but definitely fully extended.

Part of the issue is that when moving and shooting, the body tilts forward to compensate - the arms get extended and the shoulders push up. We might be comparing apples and oranges.

[GJM]

Part of the issue is that when moving and shooting, the body tilts forward to compensate - the arms get extended and the shoulders push up. We might be comparing apples and oranges.

Not sure — Ben sure looks pretty extended here when standing and shooting.

[ASH556]

Arms isn't the only thing involved in how far to press out. Grip and wrist angle is a big part of it as well. I've seen some shooters so focused on full extension that they were losing their support hand grip almost every shot. To me you've got to have it compressed at least enough to keep that wrap and pressure with the support hand.

[jetfire]

YVK and I were discussing this tonight. He was looking at videos of Max Michel and Christian Sailor and both seem to always have bent legs but fully extended arms. I just went and looked at a video of Ben Stoeger shooting a stage at the class I had with him this summer, and his arms are fully extended. No turtle or hyper extension but definitely fully extended.

You have a strange definition of "fully extended"

[YVK]

You have a strange definition of "fully extended"

You might wanna find a video that shows a side view, like in the original post of this thread. Looks very well extended to me

https://youtu.be/q3JXc_ZLzPc

[jetfire]

You might wanna find a video that shows a side view, like in the original post of this thread. Looks very well extended to me

https://youtu.be/q3JXc_ZLzPc

There's a side view at like 26 seconds in the video I posted. I also watched your linked video, and my statement about having a strange definition of fully extended stands. Both of Max's elbows are clearly bent, which is especially clear in the video I linked which shows an aggressive bend in his support elbow.

[NoTacTravis]

Women excell in Climbing I think is that because women are not heavier than most men.

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This would imply that women have a greater power to weight ratio than men which is not true. Generally speaking, fit women are able to do fewer pull-ups and other exercises that are an expression of the trade-off of "being lighter" than men.

I have however heard climbing instructors mention both that women tend to be quicker to learn to use their lower body to aid in climbing and that most novice men rely almost completely on their upper body power.

This in turn reflects that many women are faster to learn "technique" to improve the skill set where many men have a tendency to make a run at solving the problem with power.

But the "not being heavier than men" is not enough to make up for the deficit in strength all other things being equal. Women generally have a lower power to weight ratio than men all other things being equal. At the highest levels, they may narrow the gap on power to weight ratio, but the gap is always there. This is manifested as well in sports like diving, gymnastics, ice skating, where the most difficult tricks that require the greatest "hang time" come from the men's side even though the men are heavier.

Without the crutch of having extra power on tap, many top level women have to eke our their advantage through pure technique. Which is what tends to happen early on with them in rock climbing. (Also increased flexibility and better range of motion in that sport can lead to less muscle being required in a similar situation).

[YVK]

There's a side view at like 26 seconds in the video I posted. I also watched your linked video, and my statement about having a strange definition of fully extended stands. Both of Max's elbows are clearly bent, which is especially clear in the video I linked which shows an aggressive bend in his support elbow.

I'd think his elbows are rolled out a bit and that's why they look bent, but we would have to ask him. I consider myself shooting from an extended position but I can't get an iso grip on a gun without some elbow bend. So when I say extended, I mean a fairly straight shoulder-elbow-wrist line from a side view. Yes, it only addresses one plane. Regardless, I see Max's arms doing a very different thing than what the OP showed with Haley pic or what that trex dude video on page 3 shows.

Here's a good video that shows what I consider bent vs straight on a shared screen. This isn't the most bent I've seen JJ do.

https://youtu.be/tqPkhbJaSg0