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Thread: LTT 92 or Shadow 2

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    Did you add an aftermarket bushing?
    Nope. Never had that happen before either.

    June to October I been shooting about 3-4k / month, working on speed, speed, speed. Most of that round count was shot under .20 splits, frequently at .15-.16, up to 500 rounds per session. I even got a moderate shooter's elbow, been taking time off after the A1. Maybe just too much stress on the guns.
    In addition, my CO slides have been lightened almost 2 oz below the OEM weight. The SROs make up for the most of it but I think the slides are still lighter. I use lighter recoil springs too, so I think my guns just got banged up a bit.
    ďWell," said Pooh, "what I like best," and then he had to stop and think. Because although Eating Honey was a very good thing to do, there was a moment just before you began to eat it which was better than when you were, but he didn't know what it was called.

  2. #42
    The lack of a decocker on the CZ is a hard no for me. I would choose the LTT Beretta every time over the Shadow 2.


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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    Nope. Never had that happen before either.

    June to October I been shooting about 3-4k / month, working on speed, speed, speed. Most of that round count was shot under .20 splits, frequently at .15-.16, up to 500 rounds per session. I even got a moderate shooter's elbow, been taking time off after the A1. Maybe just too much stress on the guns.
    In addition, my CO slides have been lightened almost 2 oz below the OEM weight. The SROs make up for the most of it but I think the slides are still lighter. I use lighter recoil springs too, so I think my guns just got banged up a bit.
    Shooting CO just remove the front sights. Its not needed to hold the bushing in, just make sure you put the pin back in.

  4. #44
    King of Craft Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    Nope. Never had that happen before either.

    June to October I been shooting about 3-4k / month, working on speed, speed, speed. Most of that round count was shot under .20 splits, frequently at .15-.16, up to 500 rounds per session. I even got a moderate shooter's elbow, been taking time off after the A1. Maybe just too much stress on the guns.
    In addition, my CO slides have been lightened almost 2 oz below the OEM weight. The SROs make up for the most of it but I think the slides are still lighter. I use lighter recoil springs too, so I think my guns just got banged up a bit.
    3-4k a month was similar to my burn rate last year. I know there are 100's of USPSA shooters who are doing that regularly as well. It's hard for me to envision a mechanism for split speed to cause damage. But, the light recoil spring may be your answer! I have gone to a heavier RS in the last couple of years. I'm running 12-13#. I find that I get less flip, faster cycling, and if my grip is solid the gun still doesn't dip.

    Quote Originally Posted by nightstalker865 View Post
    The lack of a decocker on the CZ is a hard no for me. I would choose the LTT Beretta every time over the Shadow 2.
    Quote Originally Posted by JCS View Post
    I want a full size da/sa with the main intended use of Uspsa production.
    For USPSA, there is no reason to have a decocker. This is widely accepted in the sport.
    "BJJ is sort of like nonconsensual yoga"
    "You donít really graduate from certain problems or certain thingsÖ like you always have to work on trigger control and pulling the trigger straight. " --Ben Stoeger 1/24/2018

  5. #45
    Site Supporter JCS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MGW View Post
    I'll chime in too. My opinion is it's easier to transition from plastic guns to a 92 series than it is to a Shadow 2. I personally struggled with draws and transitions with the Shadow 2. I didn't have that issue with the Berreta. I'm a little bit of a tactical Timmy (okay maybe a lot of a tactical Timmy) and 92s fit that mold better in my mind.

    There are very few guns I regret getting rid of. One of them is a Wilson Centurian. The second is a Wilson BrigTac.
    Can you expand your thoughts on why itís easier to transition to the 92?
    "We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we FALL to the level of our training"- Archilochus

  6. #46
    Site Supporter JCS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    @JCS, it took me a while to realize that using what most of the top shooters use is the way to go. For USPSA Production division, the CZ Shadow 2 is dominant. In Carry Optics, it's gaining traction. Everyone I know, including myself, who has switched to a S2 is happy. I don't know anyone who has switched from a S2 to something else, unless they switched divisions.

    Lack of a decocker is an advantage, IMO. Fewer parts, and easier detail stripping. Putting the hammer down after "make ready" is simple and safe, if you know the trick. In comparison to the other things we need to be safe about while running around with a loaded gun, this is at the bottom of the list.

    I compared my lightly-modified (aftermarket springs and firing pin) Shadow 2 to LTT and Wilson 92s. I found the S2 to be superior in both DA and SA, as did the owners of the Berettas.

    Cheap, readily available spare parts. Easy to work on. Extremely durable and reliable. And in my opinion, better ergos.

    Unless you carry a 92, I can't think of a single reason to choose one over a Shadow2.

    The disassembly is not something I had considered. One of the reasons I like glocks is because I can take em apart practically blindfolded. Iíll have to look up some disassembly videos for each to judge my abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Les Pepperoni View Post
    While this thread devolves into the intangible nuances of aficionado-oriented DA/SA pistols, I kept thinking about your motivations while I cracked a beer...

    Re-read your question...

    Why not shoot USPSA with what you got for a bit?

    I mean, don't let any of us stop you if you want to toss a cool grand at a range toy, but, seriously, you can go so far with a Sig320 or a Glock17.
    I mean, Nils Jonasson has been winning all the area matches with a tuned Glock and Mason Lane has been right there with a tricked out P320.
    The difference is really finding something that you like - and understanding the preference really comes from getting out there and engaging in the sport.
    There you go with that common sense. Get that out of here this is about getting a new gun! I kid I kid. You are 100% correct. I had to step away from Uspsa for a couple years and I want to rededicate myself this winter to the sport. I had sold off some of my guns and planned on buying a full size gun to add to my collection. Iíve wanted a da/sa for awhile and feel like a new gun will motivate me to practice even more. I do plan on shooting several matches as I get back into it with a g19. Iím gonna have lots of questions about the gun so I may be hitting you up lol

    Quote Originally Posted by nightstalker865 View Post
    The lack of a decocker on the CZ is a hard no for me. I would choose the LTT Beretta every time over the Shadow 2.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    This is hard for me to get past as a guy who has never owned a da/sa gun. It makes me nervous watching people lower the hammer with their fingers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    3-4k a month was similar to my burn rate last year. I know there are 100's of USPSA shooters who are doing that regularly as well. It's hard for me to envision a mechanism for split speed to cause damage. But, the light recoil spring may be your answer! I have gone to a heavier RS in the last couple of years. I'm running 12-13#. I find that I get less flip, faster cycling, and if my grip is solid the gun still doesn't dip.





    For USPSA, there is no reason to have a decocker. This is widely accepted in the sport.
    Maybe I need to cut my teeth on a gun with a decocker first.
    "We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we FALL to the level of our training"- Archilochus

  7. #47
    King of Craft Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCS View Post
    Maybe I need to cut my teeth on a gun with a decocker first.
    I don't think so. In a competition setting, decocking is easy and safe. I've never seen anyone screw this up, and the stakes are low if you do.

    1. Point gun in a safe direction. E.g. at a target or the berm.
    2. Put index finger of support hand in between hammer and firing pin, with pad of finger touching hammer.
    3. Pull trigger.
    4. Rotate finger clockwise (right handed shooter), lowering hammer gently.

    For a carry gun, I'm a huge fan of decockers (I use CZ P-07s for defense).
    "BJJ is sort of like nonconsensual yoga"
    "You donít really graduate from certain problems or certain thingsÖ like you always have to work on trigger control and pulling the trigger straight. " --Ben Stoeger 1/24/2018

  8. #48
    Site Supporter JCS's Avatar
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    One additional question for the masses. Is the NP3 upgrade for the Elite LTT worth the money or is it best spent on ammo?
    "We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we FALL to the level of our training"- Archilochus

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    I don't think so. In a competition setting, decocking is easy and safe. I've never seen anyone screw this up, and the stakes are low if you do.

    1. Point gun in a safe direction. E.g. at a target or the berm.
    2. Put index finger of support hand in between hammer and firing pin, with pad of finger touching hammer.
    3. Pull trigger.
    4. Rotate finger clockwise (right handed shooter), lowering hammer gently.

    For a carry gun, I'm a huge fan of decockers (I use CZ P-07s for defense).
    Interesting. I do it a little different, using my strong hand thumb to slowly lower the hammer. This has the advantage of being able to be done with one hand, although ideally you would hold the frame with support hand while doing so. I have done this hundreds of times and always felt perfectly safe, I even used to carry in this manner (mainly an SP01).

    Nowadays I wont carry anything without a decocker, generally speeaking. However, the reason is mainly that I wouldnt want to have to manually decock after a shoot, when I might have to do so under great stress and dont want my finger in the triggerguard.

  10. #50
    Fop OP, if you like the idea of a CZ but want a decocker you could get the SP01 Tactical, maybe a pre-tuned version from Cajun Gun Works. Would be fairly similar to an S2, although not quite as purpose built for competition.

    If you want a decocker and care about ease of detail stripping, check out the P09. The P07/P09 have to be the easiest TDA guns to detail strip, like one level beyond a Glock if you know what you are doing. They are also plastic and have a more squarish grip, which may make the transition from Glock a bit easier.

    Having said that, I really dont think manually decocking is a big deal, especially just for competition. Just do it a bunch in dryfire first.

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