Great Barrington Declaration

[peterb]

At this point we do know the right things. Of course not everyone is going to do the right things.......

I suspect that the US has a far higher percentage of people who won’t “do the right things” than Sweden. Why? We’re ornery and contrary and independent. Because if they’re for it, I’m against it, and nobody is going to tell me what to do.

[4given]

We can add to the original post the 500 doctors who wrote to Trump opposing the shutdown. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-shutdown.html

I notice that the article claims these to be "Trump -backing" doctors without offering any real explanation or proof.

[HeavyDuty]

If you want to do the right thing, then there is only one question to ask. What does the most harm?

From my perspective, it’s clear that the lockdown has done more harm. Others disagree. At this point what to do should just be left up to the individual.

So, if I or a loved one contracts the virus from an individual who chooses to willfully disregard commonly accepted precautions and becomes gravely ill or dies, do I have the right to do what I want and maim or kill the chode? Because, you know, free choice?

[TheNewbie]

So, if I or a loved one contracts the virus from an individual who chooses to willfully disregard commonly accepted precautions and becomes gravely ill or dies, do I have the right to do what I want and maim or kill the chode? Because, you know, free choice?

Can you do that under other after the fact scenarios ? How do you know they gave it to them? Will you do this with flu? Bacterial infections?

What level of commonly accepted precaution violation justifies retaliation?

[Bio]

"I can needlessly endanger people and not bear responsibility because they can't prove it was me" is a pretty questionable moral stance.

[TheNewbie]

"I can needlessly endanger people and not bear responsibility because they can't prove it was me" is a pretty questionable moral stance.

Who is advocating that ?

[Bio]

Who is advocating that ?

Its the inevitable result of a "do what you want, man" strategy of pandemic containment. I'd be all about letting people make their own decisions about how they dealt with a pandemic if either.

1.) I could trust the vast majority of people to act in a way that limited transmission.

2.) The results of those actions only affected themselves.

As it is, people have plainly avoided precautions, precautions that have no or very little negative impact on their lives (I'm not talking about precautions like total shutdowns that have had real and damaging impact on people 's lives). The effects of these decisions hurt or kill vulnerable people, but because its extremely difficult to assign responsibility, there's no way to hold someone accountable for endangering people.

[TheRoland]

The general response to this pandemic has not inspired my confidence in human beings in general. It's not just people who are wrong (like I think some respectful and likely otherwise virtuous people here are), but people who are just crazy and think The Masked Singer reality show was about setting the groundwork for COVID-19 (because masks).

I'm considerably less libertarian now than I was a year ago, after watching my fellow travelers not just make different decisions than me, but be completely innumerate and fanciful.

[TheNewbie]

Its the inevitable result of a "do what you want, man" strategy of pandemic containment. I'd be all about letting people make their own decisions about how they dealt with a pandemic if either.

1.) I could trust the vast majority of people to act in a way that limited transmission.

2.) The results of those actions only affected themselves.

As it is, people have plainly avoided precautions, precautions that have no or very little negative impact on their lives (I'm not talking about precautions like total shutdowns that have had real and damaging impact on people 's lives). The effects of these decisions hurt or kill vulnerable people, but because its extremely difficult to assign responsibility, there's no way to hold someone accountable for endangering people.

Is that the case with a multitude of diseases? Should we all run around with masks and gloves on for the rest of our lives? It’s not just the my sharona that can kill.

A lot of people do bad things with guns. Increased speed limits lead to their own set of problems.

We are always affecting others by our decisions. To what level do we regulate that?

Does a dude not wearing a mask kill the vulnerable or does the lack of proper care do it? Or is it that they weren’t going to survive whatever the next sickness was? Or is it they took terrible care of themselves?

Listen, I am neither a fan nor a believer in masks. However, if we would open back up 100% on the condition we wore masks, I would do it. Even though I don’t believe in them, I would do it for the sake of society. Even now I wear a mask, unless I’m some place people are not doing it. Those are my favorite places.

What should be the punishment for not wearing a mask?

[TheNewbie]

The general response to this pandemic has not inspired my confidence in human beings in general. It's not just people who are wrong (like I think some respectful and likely otherwise virtuous people here are), but people who are just crazy and think The Masked Singer reality show was about setting the groundwork for COVID-19 (because masks).

I'm considerably less libertarian now than I was a year ago, after watching my fellow travelers not just make different decisions than me, but be completely innumerate and fanciful.

Nor has it mine. Though I imagine we are coming at our lack of inspiration from different angles.

As an American, I’m beyond disappointed by our country. We are supposed to be different from the rest of the world, yet Sweden fought the good fight. Not us.