One Dead After Shooting at Protest in Denver

[JHC]

I blame Bill de Blasio.

Why not W. “I’m not saying it was Bush’s fault but he sure didn’t do anything to stop it. “

[HCM]

This situation is a cluster, and like @GJM said, there is no amount of money that could entice me into taking an hourly PSD job for a news crew right now. I could see both a solid murder charge, or an entirely legitimate use of force acquittal depending on the bigger picture that we are not privy to. In this case, I would be very interested to see what his training background is, particularly what Pinkerton requires or specifies in their contracts. For what its worth, his grip/stance, and RDS Glock with a streamlight? - potentially carried AIWB (photos I saw only had pre-draw and after firing)- are not inconstant with someone who has done training+research... or followed the latest Instagram sexy hotness. I would be disappointed if, in the process of learning, he somehow missed use-of-force training.

As I mentioned in a prior post there is a big piece of context missing at this point:

Shooter was a contract security guard but personally leaned left. Along those lines, did the shooter engage the deceased in the course of his duties because the deceased was threatening the new crew ? Of was the shooter so unprofessional he let his personal biases suck him into a politically driven confrontation ?

Hypothetically lets assume the latter. Besides the immediate issues of the case it raises another interesting issue which @DaggaBoy has raised before. Back when DB and myself began our careers there were very few public or open source outlets for quality, high level information about guns, gear, tactics etc. Gun magazines were mostly bullshit. There was Gunsite and some spin offs and the rest was in the competition shooting world, behind high fences in the GOV/MIL/LE world, or a some combination of the two.

Now, in the information age, the world is much flatter and good information (or at least the trappings of good information) are out there for anyone who can separate the wheat from the chaff.

For example I just finished a shooting class with a young man who just bought his first gun 4 months ago but showed up with 2 RMR equipped STI's, AIWB and Duty type holsters with war belts. He aped the hardware choices he saw online and to his credit, he made great progress during the class but his initial performance did not match the impression his gear choices would have indicated.

This might be a good topic for it's own thread.

[HCM]

I was in a class last week with LEO’s from all over the country. I was extremely surprised in the amount of RDS equipped pistols I saw, both department-issued and personally-owned/department authorized.

This might be a good topic for a stick thread in the RDS section - like a running “LEAs using RDS pistols” thread.

[Joe Mac]

I know when I went through the academy we were taught to use deadly force on a subject who sprays or threatens to spray us. Same for tasers.

As was I -- but the "rules" are now a shifting goal post based more on emotion than logic.

[blues]

Why not W. “I’m not saying it was Bush’s fault but he sure didn’t do anything to stop it. “

"Good point. I'd have handled it differently. Let me grab my shotgun..."

[GyroF-16]

When you’re armed and a person violently attacks you then sprays you with mace/OC/CS it’s perfectly reasonable to believe he wants to disarm or further injure/kill you. I know when I went through the academy we were taught to use deadly force on a subject who sprays or threatens to spray us. Same for tasers.

That’s interesting. I’d never considered CS / pepper spray / bear spray as a stimulus that could justifiably warrant deadly force in response. And today, we’re I a jury member, I still don’t think I would.

Not to imply that your academy training was wrong.
Maybe I just don’t understand as much about what actions warrant deadly force as I thought I did.

[TC215]

That’s interesting. I’d never considered CS / pepper spray / bear spray as a stimulus that could justifiably warrant deadly force in response. And today, we’re I a jury member, I still don’t think I would.

Not to imply that your academy training was wrong.
Maybe I just don’t understand as much about what actions warrant deadly force as I thought I did.

Have you ever been sprayed? (Honest question, not being sarcastic)

[BehindBlueI's]

Without more information about exactly what transpired it's hard for me to feel strongly about whether or not this was a justified shooting or homicide.

Point of order: It's a homicide either way. Homicide just means he killed him, not if it's a legal act or not.

[El Cid]

That’s interesting. I’d never considered CS / pepper spray / bear spray as a stimulus that could justifiably warrant deadly force in response. And today, we’re I a jury member, I still don’t think I would.

Not to imply that your academy training was wrong.
Maybe I just don’t understand as much about what actions warrant deadly force as I thought I did.

It’s worth learning about. I was surprised when we were taught that but it makes sense and it’s well within Constitutional limits on force.

Were you on a jury I’d hope you’d vote in accordance with the law and jury instructions instead of what feels right based on watching a video.

[Mystery]

When a guy is pointing gun at you, why you spray pepper spray on him???
That's just down right stupid.
Yes, the guy may not shoot but no need to take a chance.
Was it worth it???