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Thread: U.S Next Generation Battle Rifle & Squad Weapon

  1. #41
    6.8SPC and 6.5 Grendel? Are those still a thing?


    Hornady press release from August
    https://press.hornady.com/release/20...t-for-6mm-arc/
    Seems as though someone in the DOD likes 6MM ARC. If it’s all it’s cracked up to be (weren’t 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel supposed to be all that and a bag of chips?) has better range than 5.56/6.8SPC/6.5G, fits in the existing platform... AND is already in use by some entity within DOD, why do we have to expend metric tons of taxpayer dollars to build a better mousetrap that may, or more likely may not, come to fruition?

    I really don’t know anything about government acquisition programs, but when our deficits are where they are, it seems applying a little frugality might be in order. The .338 LMG sounds like a no brainer. But theoretical case designs, some of which have been in the works for decades and haven’t borne fruit, and uber large defense contractors peddling Buck Roger’s next gen wizardry, sure sounds like a boondoggle to me. Someone will come out ahead and I don’t think it’ll be a line dog in an infantry company.

  2. #42
    Site Supporter OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    Anyone wanting to get the most from this thread should read this one before posting here. Lots of background and tech details discussed.

    U.S Army switching to 6.8mm
    .
    -----------------------------------------
    Not another dime.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Jfpatch View Post
    6.8SPC and 6.5 Grendel? Are those still a thing?


    Hornady press release from August
    https://press.hornady.com/release/20...t-for-6mm-arc/
    Seems as though someone in the DOD likes 6MM ARC. If it’s all it’s cracked up to be (weren’t 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel supposed to be all that and a bag of chips?) has better range than 5.56/6.8SPC/6.5G, fits in the existing platform... AND is already in use by some entity within DOD, why do we have to expend metric tons of taxpayer dollars to build a better mousetrap that may, or more likely may not, come to fruition?
    The Army wants a 6.8 magnum for penetrating body armor; as mentioned earlier modern Level IV is stopping .338 Tungsten AP at 200yds, so thats likely to end up as a pipe dream barring some new developments in Tungsten AP technology.

    But had the Army not wanted AP, or realized it was a pipe dream, 6mm would have been the ideal to pair with these new polymer casings.

    6mm CAKE (as in 'have your cake and eat it too) cartridge concept:


    With a polymer case 6mm CAKE would weigh slightly less then brass case 5.56, recoil like a 7.62x39, and have a fragmentation and supersonic range beyond 7.62x51. All while retaining 30rd magazines and 150-200rd belts. Hence the 'have your cake and eat it too' naming.

    Thats just one of a many different caliber configurations. With the use of polymer casings plus modern VLD projectiles, a whole new world of lightweight, high performance ammo is now possible.

    Sadly, the Army has chosen the most extreme performance possible with the 6.8.

  4. #44
    Site Supporter JSGlock34's Avatar
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  5. #45
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    That was a great video. I'm very pleased that the civilian market is still on Sig's mind. Regarding the cartridge, you can see it has some recoil to it. While I have my doubts about the 6.8x51 carbine being anything other than a DMR sort of rifle (which it could bre really good at), the 6.8x51 belt-fed really looks like a winner.

    While I certainly perceive a lot of good things about 6mm ARC, I don't think it's the total answer, either. The 5.56 AR-15 bolt is already hanging out on the edge of long-term durability, and the larger 7.63x39-compatible bolt required for the ARC & Grendel has some very thin walls. The rounds are also not going to allow any AR-15 PMAGS, and require the use of metal magazines. While an "AR-12.5" sized carbine could address both the bolt and magazines, I haven't heard or seen anyone doing the work to make that happen.

    I will admit to be being interested in a 14.5" - 16" 6mm Creedmoor, loaded at less than maximum pressure, taking advantage of the smaller and lighter components developed for the various large frame ARs.
    Per the PF Code of Conduct, I have a commercial interest in the StreakTM product as sold by Ammo, Inc.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Bergeron View Post
    That was a great video. I'm very pleased that the civilian market is still on Sig's mind. Regarding the cartridge, you can see it has some recoil to it. While I have my doubts about the 6.8x51 carbine being anything other than a DMR sort of rifle (which it could bre really good at), the 6.8x51 belt-fed really looks like a winner.

    While I certainly perceive a lot of good things about 6mm ARC, I don't think it's the total answer, either. The 5.56 AR-15 bolt is already hanging out on the edge of long-term durability, and the larger 7.63x39-compatible bolt required for the ARC & Grendel has some very thin walls. The rounds are also not going to allow any AR-15 PMAGS, and require the use of metal magazines. While an "AR-12.5" sized carbine could address both the bolt and magazines, I haven't heard or seen anyone doing the work to make that happen.

    I will admit to be being interested in a 14.5" - 16" 6mm Creedmoor, loaded at less than maximum pressure, taking advantage of the smaller and lighter components developed for the various large frame ARs.
    The POF Revolution is a great example of how the AR design can be reworked to accept a larger cartridge. A +10% AR15 that was engineered from the ground up to be optimized for an intermediate 6 or 6.5 cartridge would be epic.

  7. #47
    Site Supporter JSGlock34's Avatar
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  8. #48
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    That new MG sure looks and weighs the business. Compliments to young engineer who got to be featured in the video. Not being a machine-gunner myself, I was impressed at being able to load with on/off safe, bolt forward or back, feed tray open or shut, and the way the belt box "magazine" locks onto the gun; the fexibility looks nice.

    Semi-auto was claimed at 8MOA, but with the promise of better; auto at 10MOA . I was really hoping for some discussion of the recoiling barrel.
    Per the PF Code of Conduct, I have a commercial interest in the StreakTM product as sold by Ammo, Inc.

  9. #49
    Site Supporter JSGlock34's Avatar
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  10. #50
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    The Big Aug - Australian AUG prototype in 6.8x51:

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