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Thread: Objectively choosing between 2 guns/systems for EDC

  1. #31
    Dump the 229 and get an RMR cut slide and optic for your 19....

  2. #32
    Site Supporter Rex G's Avatar
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    I can only guess what you should do, but perhaps my Glock-to-SIG-to-Glock journey will have some conceptual application:

    In my personal case, accuracy was the deciding factor, the first time around, in 2004. The first time I fired my P229R DAK, I started, cold, without warm-up, on my employer’s duty pistol qual course. I shot a better score than I had with a Gen3 Glock G22, in 30 months of trying. I was not a stranger to SIG, as I had used a DA/SA P220, but it had been more than a decade earlier.

    I soon added a DA/SA P229, as a fun/spare gun, and, same result; I shot it far better than I had ever shot a G22.

    Both the G22 and P229 “pointed” well, for me, but fit was not equal. I was fighting nature, every time I fired a Glock. Except for the decocker hump, on the left side of the P229, it fit me as if custom-sculpted. (DAKs lacked decockers, but the frame hump was still there.) At the time, it was not clear whether PD firearms policy would allow me to qual with a Glock, if it had a modified grip frame.

    I was long-accustomed to long-stroke DA, with revolvers, and to SA, with the 1911. The Glock trigger was not my cup of tea. I was making ammo manufacturers wealthy, trying to up my Glock accuracy, but had reached a plateau.

    When Gen4 Glocks came along, they fit me much better than Gen3. .40 S&W recoil, combined with the SIG high bore axis, started combining to make training painful, for my aging hands, by 2011, so I contemplated transitioning back to Glock. When my chief OK’ed 9mm as an alternative duty pistol cartridge, I made the switch back to Glock, in 2015, though, of course, Gen4 G17. Even so, I have never managed to shoot a Gen4 Glock as well as I could shoot a P229, whether DAK or DA/SA. So, now, in the 2017-2020 time frame, the “orthopedic” factor is the deciding factor, in SIG-versus-Glock, in my case.

    I could buy an all-stainless steel P229 or P226, chambered in 9mm, and probably shoot it better than a Glock, and with substantial pain as 9mm has less recoil energy than .40 S&W, and steel damps recoil better than aluminum, but I am not likely to want to spend the money, and, I have some very nice, very accurate, all-steel, low-bore-axis, gently-recoiling 1911 pistols. Good “old man” guns.

    Your Glock-v.-Sig experience and results may vary.
    Retar’d LE. Kinesthetic dufus.

    Don’t tread on volcanos!

  3. #33
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    Subjectively, I like both, but TDA Sigs, probably better than Glocks. Objectively, it’s not even a contest. I own 5 Glocks to zero Sigs. I carry Glocks and stainless j frame S&W revolvers. All my other guns are here only because I like them.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Tennessee Jed View Post
    For me, there's nothing like shooting an IDPA match after a long day at work, tired and worn out, to test whether a particular gun works for me under less than ideal circumstances.
    What have you found to work for you under these less than ideal circumstances? Or, what have you found not to work for you?
    When you say "works for you under less than ideal circumstances", are you talking about shooting performance, or reliability?

  5. #35
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
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    Jan 2014
    I'd need to ruminate on this a bit; I'm a charter member of the "gun of the month" club, coming new to shooting in 2014 lol. I got a lot of input when I was picking a new carry gun in 2017; perhaps scanning some of the responses in this thread might help?

    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....something-else


    So, this is somewhat 'in general', and may or may not apply in your specific situation, but I found them applicable, to me:

    - Don't mix trigger systems.

    At one point, I was shooting a HK VP9 in USPSA, and carrying a P30SK LEM. I decided to "test" my carry gun by taking a 2 day Tom Givens class. Boy was that an eye opener. I had trouble both with the long LEM pull as well as the short grip. I sold both and bought a Glock 19.

    - You really should not go back and forth between systems.

    Unless you like a gun for sentimental value (not that there's anything wrong with that) don't keep it. While I kept the VP9 and P30SK, I still had a M&P 9mm full size. It did nothing for me in the safe. I should have sold it immediately.

    - Supporting two different systems is more expensive than one.

    I had at various points up to four guns, mostly with different sights, holster types, magazines, tools, and so forth. It got expensive, much more so say than having a G19/G26. I think if you can enjoy shooting a G26 (I didn't) that combination is almost perfect.

    - If you don't have a snubby, you probably need one.

    They are just so darn convenient. I picked a Ruger LCR .38 but many here love their J frames. Yes a five shot revolver is just that, but it is a Rule 1 gun ("have a gun") very suitable for walking the dog, getting the mail, watching Netflix etc.


    So, what to do in your case?

    Do both shoot reliably? If they don't, the choice is easy. Sell the one that doesn't.

    Do you shoot them both accurately with self defence ammo? Pick the one you shoot better, using a numeric standard ("The Test" is a good one; 10 rounds at 10 yards in 10 seconds, scored on an NRA B-8, out of 100).

    Can you test each one under stress in a timed match? Using a gun in a Steel Challenge, or USPSA, or IDPA match, will surface issues in equipment, technique, and mental fitness, very quickly. It's surprising how fast the wheels come off when someone's timing you. Pick the one you objectively do better with.

    If they're still tied, which one is most convenient? This is things like size, loaded and holstered weight (an under appreciated criteria in a carry gun, IMHO).

    Lastly, if you can't come to a conclusion after this, I'd start to look at overall through-life cost. Things like magazines, holsters, spare parts availability, ease of maintenance (you or the gunsmith); you know, logistics.

    Once you come to a decision, I would sell the gun you are not using and start training with the one you picked.

    Good luck!

  6. #36
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    Look at Ronnie Dodd's "Rogers Class" in Tennessee - that is a class focused on shooting fast and accurately. If Dahlonega is in driving range then Ronnie Dodd's facility should be in your driving distance. He probably can offer a class with reduced round count to help you decide.

  7. #37
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Objective testing is fine, but honestly minute differences in "shootability" or drill performance aren't what the vast majority, one is tempted to say all, random citizen vs criminal gun fights hinge on. There's been plenty of options on how to determine what you shoot best, but I'll add the ability to not shoot is at least as important as the ability to shoot. Unintended discharges can life altering for the discharger. What can you administratively handle under the stress of post-shooting safer? What will you actually carry?

    Nobody objectively shoots a j-frame better then *insert hot competition pistol of the day* yet few select the second option for real world carry.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  8. #38
    Site Supporter ccmdfd's Avatar
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    Todd G talked about this many years ago.



    For most shooters, if you take two (or more) different guns to the range to test objectively, you will not get the best idea for which one is actually better, especially for average joe shooters.



    If I were to take a G19 and P229 to the range today and run drills with them, one gun would come out on top. Repeat 3 days later and I will get a different result. There are enough inconsistencies in my shooting to make that happen.



    If you really want an objective measurable difference between two platforms, you should pick one platform and train with it exclusively for many months. Can’t remember if he said 3 or 6. Note your scores on various tests. Then switch platforms and yet again stick with one for several months. Whichever one scores better “wins”.


    Yes it takes a long time, but by sticking with one platform only, you really get to wring out its performance, and quirks.



    Also agree with BB's post above that shootability may not be the best thing to decide regarding a defensive pistol.

  9. #39
    Hokey / Ancient JAD's Avatar
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    I would add emphasis to the idea that if you stick with the G19 you should install a Striker Control Device. I own a lot of Glocks and they all have one; I wouldn't carry one without it.

    I would choose based on which gun I like better, if they seem equally reliable and carryable. If I like it I'll shoot it, if I shoot it I'll get better with it.

  10. #40
    Site Supporter psalms144.1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccmdfd View Post
    If I were to take a G19 and P229 to the range today and run drills with them, one gun would come out on top. Repeat 3 days later and I will get a different result. There are enough inconsistencies in my shooting to make that happen.

    If you really want an objective measurable difference between two platforms, you should pick one platform and train with it exclusively for many months. Can’t remember if he said 3 or 6. Note your scores on various tests. Then switch platforms and yet again stick with one for several months. Whichever one scores better “wins”.
    Couldn't agree more. The "new gun" syndrome, or "honeymoon" syndrome with a new gun is very common. For instance, I've been shooting 1911s mostly for the last year. I noticed an IMMEDIATE improvement in accuracy and speed over the Glocks I've been running for decades, and then that leveled off. I'm still more accurate and faster with the 1911s, with less effort, 15 months or so in, but nowhere near the drastic shooting change I saw when I first started back with 1911s.

    Recently picked up a P365XL, mainly to have a smallish pistol that's easy to mount an optic on. First time on the range, and I couldn't miss with it. 3x5s at 25 were stupid easy. After initial vetting of pistol and optic, I went back to shooting 1911s. Ran the P365XL this weekend on our qualification, and found that I was shooting low and left with it, and the trigger that felt great the first time I took it out is now not so good.

    Short term shooting results mean darn near nothing. Long term shooting results over time are really where the rubber meets the road.

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