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Thread: RFI: USPSA Single Stack

  1. #1
    Site Supporter rob_s's Avatar
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    RFI: USPSA Single Stack

    A recent match and another thread here got me nostalgic for when I shot a 1911 in IDPA running 200 grain LSWC.

    I know that USPSA has a single-stack division but you donít hear much about it, I assume because of the frequent reloads (if people are leaving Production because of the mag changes I canít imagine what they must think about even MORE, assuming 45).

    For those that do shoot it, what are the considerations? What are considered the hotness in terms of pistols? Mags? How many mags are people carrying? Bullets-out, I assume? Thoughts or considerations on 9mm vs 45 (power factor vs capacity, as I understand it)?

    Anything else to take into account?
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  2. #2
    Site Supporter MGW's Avatar
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    Iíve been kicking this around too. My local range has started running an indoor match once a month. Iíve tried to get back into IDPA but I get bored with it. As far as mag pouches go I believe you have to run bullets forward. The major minor scoring thing is a consideration but it seems like most people at nationals are running major. Local matches might be better with minor depending in how stages are set up. Minor or major I would run six mags minimum personally.

    My current main 45 doesnít meet the weight requirement. Itís a little over 43 ounces due to the rail thatís on it. I have a Techwell magwell and grips on it, had it tuned, added Dawson sights, and thatís it.

    Subscribed to learn more. Iím going to try to make this months match if I can get it to fit my schedule.
    ďIf you know the way broadly you will see it in everything." - Miyamoto Musashi

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    A recent match and another thread here got me nostalgic for when I shot a 1911 in IDPA running 200 grain LSWC.

    I know that USPSA has a single-stack division but you donít hear much about it, I assume because of the frequent reloads (if people are leaving Production because of the mag changes I canít imagine what they must think about even MORE, assuming 45).

    For those that do shoot it, what are the considerations? What are considered the hotness in terms of pistols? Mags? How many mags are people carrying? Bullets-out, I assume? Thoughts or considerations on 9mm vs 45 (power factor vs capacity, as I understand it)?

    Anything else to take into account?
    I donít shoot it, as Iím still shooting Production and quite like it, but Iíve been curious myself enough to look into it.

    The hotness for pistols? Custom 1911s of course. Whatís practical thatíll get the job done just fine? Probably your standard fare Springfield or Dan Wesson. Iíll refer you to the ďArt and Science of running a 1911Ē for that specifically. Same thing for which mags. I took a Tim Herron class earlier this year. He was rocking a 9mm Sig 1911 the first day, a custom Nighthawk in .45 the next day. He also was running Wilson mags with Dawson Precision basepads.

    How many mags? If youíre shooting 9mm, 5+1. If .45, 6+1. Youíre generally ďBarney loadingĒ when you Make Ready every time. Most guys that run SS donít generally run bullets out. Just orient them how youíre comfortable. If thatís bullets out, cool. If not, drive on.

    9mm vs .45 is where it gets interesting (unlike typical 9mm vs .45 conversations). From what I understand going 9mm or .45 could give you a competitive advantage either way depending upon how the stages are setup. Sometimes having the 2 extra rounds at your disposal really helps, sometimes Major PF scoring is a bigger advantage. In general, I think you could probably just pick one and drive on. Given that youíre one of keeping things simple, and if it were me personally, Iíd probably just go .45 and drive on. Reloading helps keep the costs down.

    In general, I view Single Stack as the ďweird Production division that lets you shoot a cool single action gunĒ. If I had the time and resources, I could see myself getting into it. Given that Iím somewhat of a cheapskate that lives in a high cost of living area with a kid about to go into college, Iíll stick to Production for now.

  4. #4
    Site Supporter rob_s's Avatar
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    I guess I should say ďoff the shelfĒ new hotness. Iíve gone down the premium productions (Wilson, Les Baer, etc.) and evening semi-custom (Yost 1*) routes in the past and Iíd prefer not to shell out that kind of money, if possible. If thatís deemed the only way to get a functional 1911 in 2020 for competition use then Iíll probably skip the whole thing.

    In googling about I see a fair amount of discussion of the Springfield RO, which also comes with a fair amount of discussion of them not working. Also unsure re: function with LSWC, which being my primary interest here would be important.

    I was only sort of passively aware that Dan Wesson was still around, but it appears that STI has gone full-retard and even had a name change?
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  5. #5
    Hi Rob:
    Posting a ďshould I buy a gunĒ to a Gun Forum is asking kids if Halloween is fun.

    Let me remind you of an article you wrote 15+ years ago comparing 3 decent 1911s you owned at the time. I donít remember your exact views; I do remember the dust bunnies living in the guns.
    Horrifying 😊.

    I shot Single Stack locally for 10 years. Love 1911s. Negative is that all the ďgamesĒ are competitions. Driving south 150 miles to Homestead or West to Universal in the course of a month you might find one other person shooting a Single Stack. He is the guy his friend brought along to try out competition shooting. So, you are shooting alone which can get old pretty quick.

    I understand different sections of the country have different preferences, but south Fl is hi cap country. While the Stages might be 8 round legal. They are clearly designed for hi caps, not even Production. Limited, Open, PCC and Optics are where the people are.

    I always had a 9mm and well as the 45s. The 9 was for Steel Challenge which does not have a power factor in SS. And, hi volume classes like Kyle Lamb where 1000 rounds in 3 days are tough on the hands. All guns were tuned by Derrick Janowicz.
    Other Outlaw matches donít have power factors, Action Steel for example.

    Grab a pair of Wilson Combats and enjoy. :-)

  6. #6
    I am at present shooting Single Stack because I have more Large primers than small.

    I haven't bought a gun in so long that I am not qualified to recommend a brand.
    But if you think about it, mass produced guns like SA and Ruger or even Colt are not too expensive and if it doesn't work a couple hundred bucks for a "reliability package" by a real 1911 'smith will get you going a lot cheaper than a small time manufacturer "semi custom". Some like S&W and Sig, but they may be more of a departure from 1911 than you care for.

    Heck, a friend here has a Tisas and all it took was a good magazine and a detent on the slide stop to get him going. But he is content with roundnose bullets.
    So am I. Not all my .45s will feed SWCs and I am tired of keeping them straight. There are 200 gr roundnose so I can keep the same ballistics even though not the pretty holes.
    Code Name: JET STREAM

  7. #7
    Site Supporter rob_s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by p7fl View Post
    I shot Single Stack locally for 10 years. Love 1911s. Negative is that all the ďgamesĒ are competitions. Driving south 150 miles to Homestead or West to Universal in the course of a month you might find one other person shooting a Single Stack. He is the guy his friend brought along to try out competition shooting. So, you are shooting alone which can get old pretty quick.
    That, at least, I don't care much about. I'm happy to look at the overall scores, ignore the various rankings and classifications, and see where I land. The prospect (likelihood?) that I wind up beating a guy shooting Limited while i shoot SS? That's pretty much enough for me. I have no illusions about actually being competitive as I've found I have other priorities. not to say I don't care about the score, but I don't care enough to put any real effort into changing them.

    I understand different sections of the country have different preferences, but south Fl is hi cap country. While the Stages might be 8 round legal. They are clearly designed for hi caps, not even Production. Limited, Open, PCC and Optics are where the people are.
    Funny you say that, as even at last week's action steel I was thinking the exact same thing. Obviously I have no idea what any other matches are doing in the region, and now that AJ has killed the afternoon squads probably won't even realistically know what he's doing either anymore (which perhaps makes all of this a moot point), but it did occur to me that the stages were pretty clearly favoring "hi cap".
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  8. #8
    Except in a Single Stack match, most competitors are shooting other divisions, and stage designs have become influenced by hi cap divisions.

    The easy way to make a 1911 reliable, is to shoot .45, but then you are eight rounds in a hi cap world. The stories I hear about making .40 magazines reliable are crazy complicated. If you are shooting 9, why not Production, unless you carry a 1911.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  9. #9
    Site Supporter rob_s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Except in a Single Stack match, most competitors are shooting other divisions, and stage designs have become influenced by hi cap divisions.

    The easy way to make a 1911 reliable, is to shoot .45, but then you are eight rounds in a hi cap world. The stories I hear about making .40 magazines reliable are crazy complicated. If you are shooting 9, why not Production, unless you carry a 1911.
    The whole point would be to shoot .45, specifically LSWC, for no particular reason other than contrarianism and anachronism.
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  10. #10
    vaccinated & maskless fatdog's Avatar
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    Major and minor power factors apply as well as the respective target scoring, you can shoot either.

    I have shot minor 9mm to be able to use 10 round mags, but I now only shoot major and use 8 round mags. The ACT 8 round 45 mags work well in my S&W Performance center 1911, my backup gun is my former bullseye gun modified for USPSA. I tired of shooting minor to get the extra two rounds and sold my Performance Center 9mm to a friend and fellow competitor even though it mostly ran for me with the second gen Wilson ETM's. I have loaded reduced power 230gr, 200gr swc, and 185gr Berry hollow base bullets at various times that all made major. I currently run the reduced power 230's (about 750fps) with a 14# spring and a shock buff and that seems to be the sweet spot for me.

    There are different rules regarding placement of your holster and magazines for single stack division, e.g. no dropped and offset holsters and mag carriers behind the point of the hip. I basically converted my old CAS wild bunch rig to a USPSA single stack set up since it meets the requirements, but many conventional belt holsters will work. As with other divisions, having a good plan derived from the stage walk through is essential since you have more mag changes than anybody else.
    Last edited by fatdog; 10-05-2020 at 10:41 AM.

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