RFI: the reasoning behind the DAO service pistol "wave" of the late 80s/ear90s

[Rex G]

How much of that was influenced by the fact TX DPS went from TDA P226s to DAK P226s?

They were definitely a factor in the regional popularity of the .357 Sig round.

As I believe the late PF member LSP972 said, the DAK sucks all the joy out of shooting a SIG.

The internal workings of the chiefs’ offices, the firearms training unit in the training division, and the specialized divisions, were always a mystery to me.

Personally, I liked DAK, as it was so much like the long-stroke DA for S&W and Ruger revolvers. Training with any one system helped my performance with the others. If anything took the joy out of shooting SIG, for me, it was the obnoxious .40 S&W, the then-mandated duty cartridge, and the wide-body frame. I had really liked shooting my .45 ACP P220 DA/SA, which I had used from 1991 to 1993.

Of course, no high-bore-axis, aluminum-alloy-framed SIG is going to be as joyful to shoot as an all-steel, full-sized 1911.

[TheNewbie]

Every bit as valid as they were in the past. I was confident carrying department issue TDAs for many years and am using a Beretta 92 on my current teaching tour.

Back in 1990 I visited FBI FTU at Quantico and had a long talk with John Hall, who was the prime mover in getting TDA SIGs and S&Ws approved for general issue by FBI after decades of revolver-only. He made the point that the double action first shot made sense since most unintentional discharges were on the first shot. After that, he said, he figured his agents would be in a gunfight and would benefit from the shorter, lighter pull of the self-cocked TDA action. It was hard to argue with that thinking, and still is.

Thanks!

I carry a TDA (P-07). I’m probably one of the last to do so in my area. I feel significantly more comfortable with it as a duty weapon than a Glock.

A light DAO P-07 would be cool to see, but I’m happy with what I have.

[TheNewbie]

The internal workings of the chiefs’ offices, the firearms training unit in the training division, and the specialized divisions, were always a mystery to me.

Personally, I liked DAK, as it was so much like the long-stroke DA for S&W and Ruger revolvers. Training with any one system helped my performance with the others. If anything took the joy out of shooting SIG, for me, it was the obnoxious .40 S&W, the then-mandated duty cartridge, and the wide-body frame. I had really liked shooting my .45 ACP P220 DA/SA, which I had used from 1991 to 1993.

Of course, no high-bore-axis, aluminum-alloy-framed SIG is going to be as joyful to shoot as an all-steel, full-sized 1911.

Did you ever try a P220 DAK?

[DDTSGM]

Got a question - who coined the term TDA to replace DA/SA, and what was the thought process?

[farscott]

Got a question - who coined the term TDA to replace DA/SA, and what was the thought process?

I am not sure if S&W coined it, but I first saw it around the time of "Gun of the Month" and "The Whiz Wheel". TDA showed up on The Whiz Wheel.

[Rex G]

Did you ever try a P220 DAK?

No, I never did. My P220 was the old-school “European” version, with the heel-clip mag release. The newer “American” version, with a push-button mag release, also had a different grip design, which was not my cup of tea, so my Ruger GP100, rather than being a temporary, interim duty handgun, became my longer-term duty handgun.

By the time I decided to return to using a SIG, the P229 was the only SIG model approved as a primary duty pistol. Later, the P226 was added to the listed of approved duty pistols, and though I would have preferred the P226, it was not worth buying another expensive weapon, plus more magazines and holsters. When strong rumors of the impending approval of 9mm as an alternative duty cartridge started circulating, I contemplated switching to a 9mm SIG, but, when the approval of 9mm finally happened, in late 2015, my gimpy right right thumb/hand/wrist prompted me to switch to the lower-bore-axis G17, as, by then, Glock was making the Gen4, which fit my hands well. (Plus, the chief had been hinting that the 1911 would again be on the list approved duty pistol, which, also, DID happen. I finished my career “qual’ed” with 9mm Glocks and .45 ACP 1911 “primary duty” pistols.)

DAK served a valuable purpose, in my life, for a time, but that time has passed.

[Rex G]

Got a question - who coined the term TDA to replace DA/SA, and what was the thought process?

@Mas Ayoob was the first writer I noticed to be using TDA, for “traditional” DA autoloaders. We’ll see if Mas sees this, and provides details.

[DDTSGM]

Farscott and Rex, thanks for the info!

I'm a fan of calling things what they are, whether it comes to malfunctions, or weapon types.

I've been a member here since 2015, but only started coming here with aqny regularity within the last 18 months or so. When I first saw the term TDA, I was eventually able to determine what it meant contextually, I think.

However traditional double action, doesn't equate to DA/SA in my mind, rather it relates to a DA revolver like pull on all trigger strokes. I'd get it if it was S&W's term for a specific model like Sig's DAK or H&K's LEM. That doesn't seem to be the case.

Just a rant, I'll live.

[Mas]

@Mas Ayoob was the first writer I noticed to be using TDA, for “traditional” DA autoloaders. We’ll see if Mas sees this, and provides details.

Rex, I have used the term but didn’t coin it. Not sure who did...maybe Wiley Clapp? I think it was John Farnam who came up with “self-decocking” for DAO pistols.

[farscott]

The more I dig into the old literature the more I am convinced S&W coined the term "traditional double action" to contrast against decock only and DAO pistols. The phrase shows up all over the S&W literature of the 3rd Generation pistols.