Originally Posted by backtrail540
You guys are amazing. I searched all over for some wrap around grip options and found nothing. Ordered some Dark Earth Hogues. Hopefully they will do the trick.
You guys are amazing. I searched all over for some wrap around grip options and found nothing. Ordered some Dark Earth Hogues. Hopefully they will do the trick.
Regarding splits, running the trigger at assessment speed etc...I ran some more speed oriented stuff today to compare to previous runs with striker and da/sa runs previous.
One of the things I like about this trigger is that while I'm sometimes a tenth or so slower per split, I seem to not be able to outrun my sights with the long trigger stroke and reset so I generally have more clean runs. For example, on the 5 yard stage of the Advanced Super Test, I generally run in the low to mid 3's from the holster. Today I laid down a 4.02. The difference is that the 4.02 was a 98 that felt effortless whereas normally with something like a m&p i will do mid to high 90's and feel like i'm at my limit. For me, the control is worth it. I'll still shoot other guns for pure performance but I certainly won't be upset about a half second over the course of 10 rounds.
5 yard string of advanced super test
On something like the pistol shooting solutions tests, I've ran that 6 times this year with a best of 20 flat aggregate and a worst of 24.6. With the 92d my time was 23.32 but with a fair amount of clean runs and therefore a decent concealment bonus.
The bill drill is the best example of high% target splits as fast as I can get them shooting for A's. A clean 2.87 isn't anything spectacular, dark pin level, but representative of where i'm generally at looking at the runs i've done this year. Actually that is my exact corrected average for the 12 bills i've ran with striker and da/sa guns this year. So it seems that slower splits is averaging out with better hits via not outrunning my sights and less anticipation issues.
2.87 bill
I did have a few issues with short stroking today when pushing hard. It turned .3 splits into .6 splits. Not something I believe to be irrecoverable, though your opinion may vary of course. I like this gun from a defensive stand point. If I don't end up carrying it, I certainly would not mind it as a bedside gun that is a bit more forgivable for handling while sleepy/excited/whatever in the middle of the night.
Side note - the 12 lb spring chewed through 50 rounds of steel cased tula today with no light strikes.
"...we suffer more in imagination than in reality." Seneca, probably.
First: that is some great shooting. I am mid to high 5s range on the 5 yd stage of the AST from concealment and am no where near those splits or score. With a Glock I am around 4.2-4.5s. Agree with your findings that I never outrun my sights with the D.Regarding splits, running the trigger at assessment speed etc...I ran some more speed oriented stuff today to compare to previous runs with striker and da/sa runs previous.
One of the things I like about this trigger is that while I'm sometimes a tenth or so slower per split, I seem to not be able to outrun my sights with the long trigger stroke and reset so I generally have more clean runs. For example, on the 5 yard stage of the Advanced Super Test, I generally run in the low to mid 3's from the holster. Today I laid down a 4.02. The difference is that the 4.02 was a 98 that felt effortless whereas normally with something like a m&p i will do mid to high 90's and feel like i'm at my limit. For me, the control is worth it. I'll still shoot other guns for pure performance but I certainly won't be upset about a half second over the course of 10 rounds.
5 yard string of advanced super test
Side note - the 12 lb spring chewed through 50 rounds of steel cased tula today with no light strikes.
Second: maybe I need to try a lighter spring if you are getting those results with a 12. I really hate messing with factory triggers usually.
Side note - the 12 lb spring chewed through 50 rounds of steel cased tula today with no light strikes.[/QUOTE]
What pull weight has that resulted in?
What pull weight has that resulted in?[/QUOTE]
No trigger gauge available.
"...we suffer more in imagination than in reality." Seneca, probably.
I am one of a tiny minority of gun folks who believes strongly in either DAO or TDA for LEO/defensive use, and with the exception of Kahr pistols and the Walther P99 AS, I don't include SFA guns in that category. Perhaps it is because my experience with firearms and law enforcement began when dinosaurs walked the earth, and/or because of what I have done and seen in my work, which includes responding to OIS incidents. To me the practical difference between TDA and various forms of DAO, including DAK and LEM, is the question of reliably decocking as necessary under stress and the small additional training issue of transition from DA to SA trigger.
I am just getting home after a long work night so I am not going to be as verbose as I might otherwise, but I think the "safety" of a long trigger pull is significant when the thing in whose direction you are pointing your gun breathes and bleeds instead of being steel or paper. Most cops "cover" people far more often than they draw and fire, but you will rarely see videos on the internet of cops holding people at gunpoint. It is not exciting to watch such things. Similarly, when out in the real world, the "safety" factor in a longer trigger pull and in some cases, a visible hammer, can be important when holstering, unholstering, grabbing a gun off of the nightstand or dresser, shoving it in a lockbox, etc.
I carry a DAK on duty and off duty it is either a DAK or a Kahr. I don't care much about the two different reset points and varying trigger weights of the DAK, I just view it as a DAO trigger. Before that I carried one or another S&W 3rd gen DAO and before that, revolvers (Geez, I am getting old). If I were new on the job, I wold not be permitted to carry what I do, and I suspect that the day when I have to change is not far off.
If you watch this video from 1:08 to 1:14, Ernest Langdon pretty much nails my feelings on the subject, although he is talking about TDA.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lZHzyW_A4g
Bedtime now.
I received my 92x plastic conversion grips from mgw last night. The texture is very good for plastic grips - reminiscent of a taller rtf2 texture. Initially I didn't think it mimicked the original 92 shape well but when comparing to a brig tac, I couldn't find a noticeable enough difference other than the conversion grips are thinner than the wilson grips but the angle felt similar enough. I'll hopefully get a chance to dry practice this week and should certainly get some live fire this weekend. If these help with the low grip issues I sometimes get with the vertec but nearly never with the normal 92's then I'll keep them on.
The grips are aggressive enough on initial inspection that I don't see a need to get g10, at the moment anyway. If you dislike the vertec then these are not a bad option at a seemingly decent price, when you find them anyway. More impressions later in the week after dry/live practice.
"...we suffer more in imagination than in reality." Seneca, probably.
I agree completely. We got a pistol 20+ yrs ago after one too many rapes in a nearby town and some co-workers recommended a decock only Ruger. For some reason wife and I were never happy w/ our shooting that gun so I kept renting a gun each range trip. I liked the decock only action so usually rented similar guns. One day it was an old B92 and bam, hit what I aimed at. Got the wife to go with me the next weekend and same for her. That range had some police tradein 92f so a couple weeks later I bought one. We have been shooting 92s since. Of course then I started reading everything I could on 92s and saw an article on the Elite IIs. A year after the 92f I traded that Ruger on an EII. A while later Md started some more restrictive gun laws so I told me wife she needed an EII in case they became unavailable. Went to the store, I gave them a deposit because we had to wait 10 days to pick it up. Went to pick it up and my wife says, I hope this won't be a problem but I want my name as the owner and I will pay the balance myself. Now she carries a G19 and I carry and M&P9c and I have actually made the triggers on both heavier (especially the pre-travel) than they came from the factory. We force ourselves once in a while at the range to shoot our carry guns. Usually my wife says, I know I should but is that enough w/ the Glock, I want to shoot my Beretta now.
I picked mine up from my FFL and am quite pleased. My front sight and dovetail appear to be perfectly level. The trigger pull is a little heavier than I’d like but it’s very smooth. I don’t feel any grittiness or uneveness in the trigger pull aside from the mild stacking that’s present in every Beretta 92 when the firing pin block lifts. I’ve got the Wilson Combat tuning kit coming and look forward to seeing what the trigger pull feels like with the Wilson trigger bar and a 12# hammer spring installed. I was considering getting a steel trigger and steel guide rod as well. I might hold off for a bit on the trigger. I wasn’t expecting the trigger pull to be this smooth with the plastic trigger. I still want to get the steel guide rod just because I don’t fully trust the plastic ones after having one break on me within 200 rounds on an M9A3 I used to own.
I’m still not sold on the Vertec frame and will likely get the G10 wraparound grip once Beretta gets more in stock. The hump on the standard 92 frame seems to help lock my hand in as high as I can grip and allows for my trigger finger to pull straight back. I have a harder time locking in a high grip with the Vertec.
The only other Beretta 92 I own is an LTT Elite. I forgot how sharp the edges of the trigger guard and beaver tail are on a non-LTT frame from the factory. I would have absolutely loved an LTT frame in place of the 92X frame but that would be way too much to ask for what these guns were selling for. If anyone would like to trade an LTT Elite frame for this 92X frame, let me know. You’ll be my best friend.
My posts only represent my personal opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of any employer, past or present. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.
Can you swap uppers? Have a LTT Elite D?
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