Armenia-Azerbaijan conflict thread

[Moshjath]

Haven’t seen this posted yet, so I figured I’d start a thread on this.

Anybody else following this? Obviously Nagorno Karabakh has been a frozen conflict for the past 25 odd years, but it looks like it’s becoming quite hot. Much more so than a border skirmish. I’m having a hard time figuring out who is driving the fighting...I’m getting the impression that this is being instigated more by the Azeri side as they attempt to retake ground in Nagorno Karabakh. Of note though, seems that the Turks are getting involved. Yerevan is claiming that one of their Su-25’s was shot down by a Turkish F16 roughly 60k inside Armenian airspace. Perhaps even more significantly, they are claiming that the F16 took off out of Azerbaijan.

I know in the long run, Turkey and Azerbaijan are fast allies and may even still harbor some old Ottoman dreams. The Russians sell equipment to both sides, but are more closely allied with Armenia.

Real curious to see if this keeps on escalating. Armenia claims (two days in) to have shot down multiple Azeri helicopters, and destroyed well over 100 Azeri tanks and IFVs.

[Suvorov]

First I've hear of it but this has been brewing for about 1300 years.

Thanks for bringing this up. Obviously a potential flash point for Russia (who are culturally and religiously allied with the Armenians) and our "Allies in Democracy and Human Rights" Turkey.

[Dan_S]

Following with interest.


Apparently, our upcoming trip to Armenia is now off for the time being....

[FrankinCA]

The whole region is Balkanized. When the Soviets took power, Caucus Mountains and Central Asia were constant thorns in their side. Soviets used paratroops to fight ‘bandits’

Armenian history is pretty interesting. It was a buffer state between Rome and Parthia

[5pins]

We really need to get Turkey out of NATO before they drag us into some stupid war.

[farscott]

We really need to get Turkey out of NATO before they drag us into some stupid war.

Does anyone think that if Turkey invokes Article 5 that other signatories would do anything? The actual text of Article 5 offers a lot of leeway.

The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognized by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary [emphasis added], including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security.

The "as it deems necessary" clause allows the other signatories to say, "Umm. This is not what NATO is supposed to protect."

Furthermore from the NATO website at https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/t...lly%20attacked.

This is an individual obligation on each Ally and each Ally is responsible for determining what it deems necessary in the particular circumstances.

[ranger]

I have been following as interested to see weapons in use and tactical trends. Turkey seems proficient with armed drones.

[scw2]

We really need to get Turkey out of NATO before they drag us into some stupid war.

Did turkey not shoot down a military jet or aircraft already as part of the conflict? I think I saw something last night or this morning but didn't dig in further. Also heard Turkey, Russia and Iran are getting involved in the conflict to varying degrees so could get worse.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Folks are still fighting the religious wars of the past plus the remnants of WW I. Not for us to be involved. I do think, Turkey needs a kick in the butt. Let them face Russia alone as the price for their empire, ego building polices of their dictator, if Vlad wants to control Black Sea access as Russians do periodically.

[Suvorov]

Folks are still fighting the religious wars of the past plus the remnants of WW I. Not for us to be involved. I do think, Turkey needs a kick in the butt. Let them face Russia alone as the price for their empire, ego building polices of their dictator, if Vlad wants to control Black Sea access as Russians do periodically.

The problem is what do we (Western Allies) due when Vlad controls the Black Sea? Historically England's unholy alliance with Turkey has been primarily aimed at keeping Russia contained in the Black Sea - the Crimean War being a prime example as well as Turkeys admittance in to NATO. As everyone here knows, this fight is centuries old and only a great moron would get involved in a land war in Asia. Unfortunately the world is being led by great morons........

Watched a bunch of videos last night showing the full on mobilization of Armenian males - many of them in their 40s and 50s and apparently in good spirits. Poor bastards don't know what's coming.......