The Leupold FX-II Ultralight 2.5x20mm and the Defensive Carbine

[MGW]

Magnification is overrated, especially when paired with good glass. I don't mean you don't need magnification, it is certainly helpful. However, anything over about 3-4X comes with tradeoffs and IMHO is less than ideal on anything but a dedicated precision rifle. I've had some fairly high end scopes on AR's over the years (Nightforce 2.5-10 and NX8, Leupold Mark 4 3.5-10, other hunting class Leupolds). I've shot my tightest 10-shot 100yd groups (.8-1.0 MOA) with a 3.5X TA11 ACOG. Glass quality trumps magnification.

I also agree with the points made herein about simplicity and not spinning the mag dial. I've written elsewhere in more detail about it, so I won't re-hash it all here and sidetrack the thread, but count me in the simple fixed-power optic camp, although my personal preference has become the ACOG with piggyback RMR. I couldn't care less about the tritium, but the FO Illumination, glass quality, reticle quality, size, weight, and durability all make it a winner for me. I can run it pretty quickly up to about 25yds, but inside 25yds I start losing speed. Sure, fast COM hits are still do-able, but for a civilian situation where every bullet hits something, I'd rather not just YEET rounds off through an occluded sight picture. That's where the RMR comes in.

Ive seen a lot of TACPs running ACOGs with red dots on top. I deployed with an ACOG several years ago and liked it. My problem is I don’t use it enough now to be comfortable with an ACOG. Too much going on for me. I’m better off if I don’t need to think much.

[MGW]

@NH Shooter are you aware of an optic similar to your Leupold that is red dot only? I’m really intrigued by what this optic offers but I’m convinced that I want to stick with a single red illuminated dot.

[NH Shooter]

@NH Shooter are you aware of an optic similar to your Leupold that is red dot only? I’m really intrigued by what this optic offers but I’m convinced that I want to stick with a single red illuminated dot.

Some of the prismatic low power fixed scopes (such as the various Primary Arms models) offer unique reticles, though not strictly a dot. The Steiner P4xi features a fairly simple cross hair reticle with a daylight-bright dot, but it weighs three times more than the 2.5x20mm.

Perhaps the only real option for that is a RDS with a magnifier, assuming your eyesight can render the dot as a dot.

[stomridertx]

Some of the prismatic low power fixed scopes (such as the various Primary Arms models) offer unique reticles, though not strictly a dot. The Steiner P4xi features a fairly simple cross hair reticle with a daylight-bright dot, but it weighs three times more than the 2.5x20mm.

Perhaps the only real option for that is a RDS with a magnifier, assuming your eyesight can render the dot as a dot.

I think the RDS + Magnifier combo is underappreciated, and is seeing a resurgence now that newer models with more eye relief and better eyebox characteristics are hitting the market. It seems like Chinese manufacturers have cracked the code on decent prism glass, which is why some of the less expensive prism optics have gotten so good.
I think you could do better with the dot than you realize. I've made several posts on this lately, but my astigmatism also is the type that makes me see a cluster of dots when I stare at it. With my BCM 16" carbine, good match ammo, and a rest I can pull off a 1.5-2 MOA group at 100 yards unmagnified. With standard 5.56 55gr M193 type ammo it opens up to 4 MOA. I correct my astigmatism with hard GP contacts, which cleans up the dot but still doesn't render a perfect dot. With those on I really don't tighten up any. If I'm target focused I don't notice the dot shape at all, I just put red in the center of the target. That said, when trying to get the best 100 yard zero I can, I do turn down the dot intensity and look through the rear aperture, which cleans up the dot and eliminates parallax the same way it does on iron sights. I got the chance to try out another shooter's Vortex magnifier last week, and that thing is fantastic and makes it shoot like one of the PA low power prism sights with a simpler reticle. I'm getting one with the intention of slapping it on any time the rifle goes from home defense mode to out the door .
All that said, you are spot on about the Leupold Ultralight 2.5 fixed scope. I ran the VX Freedom 1.5-4x Duplex reticle scope for a while, and I found myself actually leaving it halfway in magnification at about 2.5 most of the time. With a bright white light, no problems seeing the reticle in low light. I was totally happy with this setup until my I took a red dot to my optometrist, found out he was a shooter and understood the issue, and he hooked me up with my current contacts. My vision is now corrected so well that I like the zero magnification view of the red dot the best for a defensive carbine.

[okie john]

Magnification is overrated, especially when paired with good glass. I don't mean you don't need magnification, it is certainly helpful. However, anything over about 3-4X comes with tradeoffs and IMHO is less than ideal on anything but a dedicated precision rifle. I've had some fairly high end scopes on AR's over the years (Nightforce 2.5-10 and NX8, Leupold Mark 4 3.5-10, other hunting class Leupolds). I've shot my tightest 10-shot 100yd groups (.8-1.0 MOA) with a 3.5X TA11 ACOG. Glass quality trumps magnification.

You can do surprisingly precise work with a 4x and it can be fast up close.





The real limit of a lower-powered scope is range. The old rule of thumb for big-game rifles was 100 yards for each 1x of magnification, so a 4x scope was good to 400 yards. The Brits managed to get by with a 3.5x scope from WWI to the Falklands and it wasn't until Viet Nam that the US military went much beyond 4x.


Okie John

[littlejerry]

No doubt, low or zero magnification doesn't limit group size. Just look at service rifle matches for tiny groups shot with irons.

Magnification enables you to identify, engage, and make calls on small targets. Shooting a 2-4 MOA group is not the same as hitting a 2-4MOA low contrast target. Add in field conditions (wind, UKD) and magnification becomes even more valuable at intermediate ranges.

As with anything it's important to identify what your specific needs are. If your standard is hitting silhouettes at 3-400 yards, you'll need substantially less magnification than someone who needs first round hits on 10" plates at 5-600 yards. Likewise someone who primarily cares about HD/SD at <100 yards will have different standards.

I'm not at all saying low fixed mag optics are useless. They are quite versatile and probably a good choice for many uses. But I don't at all agree with the notion that >4x magnification isn't beneficial or needed.

[theJanitor]

@NH Shooter are you aware of an optic similar to your Leupold that is red dot only? I’m really intrigued by what this optic offers but I’m convinced that I want to stick with a single red illuminated dot.

Aimpoint used to make the 30mm ML2 in 2x power. I believe it's been discontinued

[HCM]

Ive seen a lot of TACPs running ACOGs with red dots on top. I deployed with an ACOG several years ago and liked it. My problem is I don’t use it enough now to be comfortable with an ACOG. Too much going on for me. I’m better off if I don’t need to think much.

Assuming you deployed with a 4x ACOG. The IME the 3.5x TA 11 makes a much better do all optics.

[HCM]

I seem to recall Leupold even offered a truly custom reticle service before, I hope that comes back. One of these with a simple reticle with accurate 400 and 500 holdovers would be more than I ever needed on a 5.56 carbine, or even my lightweight bolt gun (a Stevens 200.)

Leupolds custom shop is temporarily closed for "improvements." No ETA for it's return.

[HeavyDuty]

Leupolds custom shop is temporarily closed for "improvements." No ETA for it's return.

Improvements rarely are...