The myth of "shot placement - shot placement - shot placement"

[HCM]

I think the OP's intent was slightly misunderstood and likewise I understand the backlash. I had to re-read the OP myself.

That being said, many replied with both vitriolic condescension and posturing. From some I expected this; from others I was truly disappointed.

Posts like this (if not trolls) should be seen as an opportunity to discuss, educate, and maybe illuminate. P-F has no shortage of intelligent, articulate, and experienced folks to do so (for now).

If the idea of rehashing legacy concepts or previously-but-not-currently accurate information is too unappealing, it is too easy to simply move on to the next thread and not post. I do this frequently on P-F and yes, I know I didn't always do this. I'm trying - real hard - to be a more productive member of the P-F community.

Based on current and emergent events, reveling in the eating of our own may be a highly detrimental course of action. This type of thread/behavior can and does chase away those in need of education and those who can provide it. I recommended P-F to people as a "professional source of information." I'd be embarrassed if someone I told to come here saw this thread, and not because of the OP.

I'll close by saying this: don't take this personally, anyone. I'm not attacking but I am making what I think are necessary observations of the overall thread's vibe. I'd like to see the entire forum - and all of us - just be better. @LittleLebowski

*If this was a troll post/thread and I'm completely off base, please disregard. You got me.

As someone who took the OP seriously despite questioning his assertion...

I don’t think the OP was a troll post but PF has seen one of it’s periodic resurgences of Derp/Fudd lore posts. Many of these people mean well and sone can even shoot competently. But most are mistaking 60 years of recreational shooting, reading Jeff Cooper, and hearing gun shop/range lore for relevant experience fighting / killing people with guns. All opinions do not have equal relevance.

As a well known instructor likes to say “every fool you suffer makes 3 more.” One of the things that makes PF unique is the signal to noise ratio. The way that positive ratio is maintained is challenging common ideas which have been debunked.

[BehindBlueI's]

Now you've done it, forced me to defend BD.

Pretty sure a lot of 'bin shootin' for 60 years dudes' were, in their younger years, terrors. You know, the ones putting hate on the enemies of our nation, on foot, sans body armor, kevlar helmets, and puss pads in their jump helmets. BD may be one of those dudes, you don't know.

I'm not dismissing anyone due to age or length of time doing something. I'm recognizing merely the length of time doing something is neither an indicator of skill, knowledge, or prowess and is largely irrelevant to weighting someone's opinions. Compare that to relevant experience, which is of great interest to me. I have relevant experience in this arena, which I think everyone in the discussion is familiar with. I know, regardless of how many years he's been doing this, that some of his assertations in this thread are simply wrong. Shooting steels for 60 years doesn't make you an expert on street crime and the gunfights that result, even if you did happen to be a closet MoH winner from the Vietnam era and just don't like to brag about it, any more then my experience makes me anyone worth listening to on the topic of jungle warfare.

An example.

https://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id...st-grandmaster

Who here has been playing chess longer then 9 years? Longer then this kid has been alive. Think you can beat him? Know more about the game then him? Right. So when someone justifies an opinion solely based on length of time exposed to/doing something sort of related to/being in the field of, it's not something I think adds weight.

[Stephanie B]

I’m lusting after a Colt Rail Gun in 9mm right now, and I have no idea why.

I’ll hold out for a Ruger 20w plasma rifle.

(I keep thinking that a “rail gun” is an electromagnetic job.)

[DDTSGM]

I'm not dismissing anyone due to age or length of time doing something. I'm recognizing merely the length of time doing something is neither an indicator of skill, knowledge, or prowess and is largely irrelevant to weighting someone's opinions...... when someone justifies an opinion solely based on length of time exposed to/doing something sort of related to/being in the field of, it's not something I think adds weight.

What we have here is a failure to communicate. I agree with all that, I should have just come out and said, 'hey the guys no doubt in his 70's, don't be dickheads, debate respectfully.'

[Welder]

Well if it wasn't a troll thread, I truly do apologize. But really, y'all. Look at the thread title, and now look at the join date....if you've been a member for a year, and contributed (and BD has; I went and checked before I posted ANYTHING), then you must have a feel for the pulse here. I was POSITIVE it was a troll, especially being put in GD instead of Ammo or M&T. I mean we're talking about Biden and Bicycle Seats in GD right now.

So I'm sorry, kind of. But you have to admit it seems pretty fishy.

[Hambo]

Let's all be better

The OP was in GD, not a technical subforum. Posting in tactics or ammunition would have eliminated some responses.

The OP was also, to my reading, a mini-manifesto against shot placement. If had a serious point to make, the OP could have done a better job of writing it and posted where it belonged.

[rob_s]

Now you've done it, forced me to defend BD.

Pretty sure a lot of 'bin shootin' for 60 years dudes' were, in their younger years, terrors. You know, the ones putting hate on the enemies of our nation, on foot, sans body armor, kevlar helmets, and puss pads in their jump helmets. BD may be one of those dudes, you don't know.

As a 66 year-old guy who just started shooting USPSA, it's kind of hard to relegate yourself to the back of the pack, after years of being a pretty successful shooter in the venues you grew up with.

Earlier today, I got DQ'ed from a match, my third ever, for going depressed ready, almost 'sul' and turning the wrong way, violating the 180. This is something that I've done, and had students do, hundreds of times on various training ranges, the real world is 360. I had no beef, I'd violated the rules of the game, and I've always been able to separate the two. I imagine it will happen again, because

I figure I've got ten more years before I'm sitting on the couch watching instead of competing. I hope when the time comes that someone cuts me some slack. Its hard for an old dog to learn new tricks, even if it's willing.

Now, I'm going to eat Mexican.

Nobody asked the OP to come in here and drop his pants for everyone to see his warty dick.

I’m all for respecting the prior accomplishments and sacrifices of the old dudes, but when they start swinging them around 97 years later they generally just show their own ignorance in the face of the new. Not to mention, anyone that says “I’ve been doing this for 60 years” as a last ditch attempt to win an argument pretty much already lost. If someone wants to state their bona fides, they oughta get that shit right out of the way from the start.

At 45 myself and getting back into competitive shooting after 5 years away, I’m already learning to keep my yap shut and watch what the young hotshots are doing, and then figure out if I still *can* do what they do, and of not how to try and bridge the gap.

[shane45]

Just another contrarian unhappy with his view not being accepted here thus the troll grenade tossed in. His payoff is our agitation. But I think that failed too with all the measured responses.

[Nephrology]

This thread has been a magical journey, from start to finish.

[ER_STL]

I’ll hold out for a Ruger 20w plasma rifle.

(I keep thinking that a “rail gun” is an electromagnetic job.)