The myth of "shot placement - shot placement - shot placement"

[TGS]

I'm disappointed here only because I was hoping for more reference to the Thompson-LaGarde Trials, 'dem Mooslim raiders in the islands, and reference to Modern Shooting Technique being borne of combat whereas you all are just shootin' games.

Throw in an M14 comment for good measure.

[rob_s]

Just another contrarian unhappy with his view not being accepted here thus the troll grenade tossed in. His payoff is our agitation. But I think that failed too with all the measured responses.

as a fellow contrarian, I will say that groupthink isn't always good either.

[DC_P]

This thread has been a magical journey, from start to finish.

Agreed. It was especially entertaining when I was not sure if people were talking about caliber/shot placement or bug extermination.

[mtnbkr]

I'm disappointed here only because I was hoping for more reference to the Thompson-LaGarde Trials, 'dem Mooslim raiders in the islands, and reference to Modern Shooting Technique being borne of combat whereas you all are just shootin' games.

Throw in an M14 comment for good measure.

How about "6 fur sure", will that placate you?

Chris

[SiriusBlunder]

I'm disappointed here only because I was hoping for more reference to the Thompson-LaGarde Trials, 'dem Mooslim raiders in the islands, and reference to Modern Shooting Technique being borne of combat whereas you all are just shootin' games.

Throw in an M14 comment for good measure.

How about "6 fur sure", will that placate you?

Chris

"They all fall to hardball!"

[ccmdfd]

This thread has been a magical journey, from start to finish.

My mother gave me that book for Med School graduation.

[Zincwarrior]

There may yet be useful cricket hunting advice, so I'm following this thread.

Fat ass Rod the wiener dog has a sneaky pattern where his head will pursue the cricket while his body (made up of a black hole of fat) barely moves. The cricket inevitably bounces against it and now its trapped. NOM NOM time.

To the topic. We all know .45 ACP will blow the door off a car just by throwing the bullet at it. In fact the allies developed the 76mm and 17lber by gluing a .45ACP to the tip of the standard 75mm howitzer round. True story!

[Clusterfrack]

Yes, this thread had a rocky start, and I'm still not sure where it's going. However, I found these two posts so worthwhile that I added them to my notebook.

So when I bothered to teach classes, I taught people to be real with their abilities. If you can reliably due it under stress, get to moving as you get that first hit. If you can't, get that first hit before you start moving. While certainly not 100%, there's a strong correlation with who gets the first hit gets the win.

Yes, hitting those shots is hard. Which is why center mass aiming is what's taught to pretty much everyone. That doesn't mean shot placement isn't king, it means you don't always get to be king.

Cartridge selection can matter, up to a point. Deflection off round bone is more of an issue with smaller and lighter bullets, for example. I've seen .22 from a handgun not go through teeth. I've not seen a duty cartridge deflect off teeth. .380 is my personal floor to recommend based on it's ability to break the femur or to completely penetrate a fatty's torso. .32 is the floor for a reliable suicide gun, just watch your angles. .25 and .22 are much harder to get a real immediate physical stop, but still (usually) beat throwing rocks as long as they reliably go bang. The absolute worst thing you can do is pull and no bang. Pull and no bang results in losses at a very high rate.

That's true, but so is the flip side of the coin of more "real world" gunfights are lost with the same. It's getting less true, though, in the criminal on criminal world. The AK/AR pistols are becoming more prevalent, and I see more Glocks then Hi-points. Which definitely wasn't always the case. At least locally revolvers are considered very uncool among the youth that tend to shoot at each other a lot, they'll actively mock their peers/competitors on social media about posing with one, so you don't see them much.

The trap some fall into is 60 years of shooting does not necessarily equal 60 years of gunfighting as shooting is only one component of fighting with a gun. Hunting can help fill in some of those gaps such as the primacy of shot placement in killing.

Meat moves when you shoot it, human or otherwise. Regardless of whether you, your opponent or both are moving you still need to hit something vital. This is where tactics, i.e. "Fighting" vs "shooting" come in and why real world fights aren't as one sided as a USPSA or IDPA stage.. A meeting engagement where both of you are moving is a bad day.

The process for stopping / killing moving threats is generally a 3 step process, 1) "wing them" with what ever hit you can get to slow them down, 2) get a better hit to fix them in place before they can get to cover, and 3) finish them.

Domestically, we may only pursue the first two steps (depending on circumstances) but the process is the same.

There are also times when being the first to planting yourself to "stand and deliver" accurate fire is the best move. Expecting to "snipe" a CNS shot is as bad as expecting you won't be able to hit something vital. There are no guarantees other than your fight will be what it will be, not what you expect. Better to expect nothing and simply do your best to hit something vital before your opponent does.



If you and your opponent are in a close range meeting engagement which helps negate your skill, its an even worse day. This is where capacity (and luck) play a role. Bullets are opportunities and the first one who has to reload in such a situation is likely going to be the loser.

The biggest issue with shooting movers in practice is the limited opportunities to access moving targets. It is a very under practiced skill.

[MistWolf]

Shop-Vac

Because caliber matters

All vacuum cleaners suck. A vacuum cleaner is what you use to fight your way to a shoe to properly crush your foes with

[MistWolf]

...(I keep thinking that a “rail gun” is an electromagnetic job.)

After 40 years carrying a battlerailer as my preferred man portable weapon system in different sci-fi and post apocalyptic RPGs, I do the same. KKW FTW!