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Thread: Target focused shooting with irons

  1. #21
    Close range the front sight is just a reference. I see it but don't focus on it, kinda more like pointing my finger.

  2. #22
    Site Supporter rob_s's Avatar
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    Re: target focus with the dot, I thought that was the whole point of the dot? It’s funny but I had never thought about occluding the optic on a pistol even thought I’ve shot a Trijicon TA33 with the front cap closed for ages.

    Re: tape trick with the irons, that’s an interesting method. I got my G19 and competition belt out of the safe yesterday to try some dry fire in the hopes of starting to shoot pistol in some local matches (been shooting PCC) and found that with my “new” progressive lenses it’s pretty much impossible to get an aligned front-site focus with both eyes open. I can focus on the front site like I never even could when younger, but somehow my right eye is becoming less dominant and the sights turn out to be misaligned when I close my left eye to check, which was already leading me to needing to have a target focus. Will have to try the tape trick.
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  3. #23
    Leopard Printer Mr_White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jared View Post
    Gabe White wrote an excellent article about vision where he discusses focus and accommodation with both eyes open. I can have both eyes open, a hard sight focus, and only see one target. It’s just that now there are “two guns.” One is very faint though. That’s how I have to shoot to get my best results.
    That's how I get my best results as well. Like, by a lot. I think doing so makes it far easier for me to remain process-focused (as in mental focus - not to add another confusing 'focus' reference to the mix) instead of outcome-focused, because I can't easily see the bulletholes. And the detail I get in the sight picture by having the front sight in hard/sharp/clear visual focus I think is a step in the direction of the precision one gets from a dot. Not the same, but in that direction.
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  4. #24
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Is it possible to only see one pistol, one front sight and one target with both eyes open? Because I can't trigger dual target or dual pistol either target focused or front sight focused. Both eyes open.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  5. #25
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    Is it possible to only see one pistol, one front sight and one target with both eyes open? Because I can't trigger dual target or dual pistol either target focused or front sight focused. Both eyes open.
    That’s what I see.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

  6. #26
    At my agency we started doing a ton of simunitions training about 20 years ago. We had some soul-searching discussions among FIs when in these scenario-based, close range fights, many of us had no recollection of using our sights at all (despite training to use a hard front sight focus), yet our shots were exactly where we wanted to place them. Video showed that we were indeed bringing our sights to the eye, and we realized we were using a sharp-target, blurry-sights picture as described earlier in this thread, and under stress our brains had discarded the irrelevant memory of the blurry sights. With more reps on scenario gunfights, the stress level lowered and the brain was able to recall more small details.

    With experience, my brain and eye simply know when they need to transition back to hard front sight focus, based on distance/difficulty of the shot, and when they can save a few tenths of a second by remaining focused on the target. It's not something I think about consciously. When I train drills that purposely push the speed/distance limits of target focus, I find that a brightly colored front sight (orange Ameriglos are my preference) are an invaluable aid to tracking the front sight while remaining focused on target.

  7. #27
    Abducted by Aliens Borderland's Avatar
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    I don't see a lot of discussion about the use of shotguns in a clays environment but that's understandable on a pistol forum. The fact is target focus is the only way to become competitive as a clays shooter. One does not focus on the front sight (bead or light pipe) of a shotgun. Actually it's only half of a sighting system anyway because your eye is the other half. So yeah, front sight focus in many situations isn't necessary for acceptable accuracy and the result of not using it speeds things up.

    Good clays shooters know that front sight focus is the first mistake that novice shooters make. When you do that you loose your ability to track a fast moving target. Target focus is key. I totally understand the concept and have used it for many years, just not with a pistol.
    Last edited by Borderland; 10-14-2020 at 11:30 AM.
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  8. #28
    Site Supporter Elwin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borderland View Post
    I don't see a lot of discussion about the use of shotguns in a clays environment but that's understandable on a pistol forum. The fact is target focus is the only way to become competitive as a clays shooter. One does not focus on the front sight (bead or light pipe) of a shotgun. Actually it's only half of a sighting system anyway because your eye is the other half. So yeah, front sight focus in many situations isn't necessary for acceptable accuracy and the result of not using it speeds things up.

    Good clays shooters know that front sight focus is the first mistake that novice shooters make. When you do that you loose your ability to track a fast moving target. Target focus is key. I totally understand the concept and have used it for many years, just not with a pistol.
    Totally neglected to mention it in my earlier post, but by the time I first shot a pistol I'd been shooting clays and live birds for at least 5 years, with clays shooting being a weekly thing during time off school (I started basically as soon as I was big enough to swing a youth-stocked 870 around). That may have something to do with using target focus immediately when I picked up handguns. Maybe a lot to do with it, actually.

  9. #29
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    That's what I discovered. I'm not a serious clays shooter, and don't really care about shotguns. However, I shoot Trap when I visit a buddy who is quite skilled at this game (he can shoot 200). So, with no practice and shooting maybe 1-2x a year, I was able to consistently score 17-20 on a round. This year, after switching entirely to target focus shooting with my handguns, I shot a 25, 24, and 24. It just didn't seem that difficult once I was looking at the target or just ahead of it. Trusting my index was a big part of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Borderland View Post
    I don't see a lot of discussion about the use of shotguns in a clays environment but that's understandable on a pistol forum. The fact is target focus is the only way to become competitive as a clays shooter. One does not focus on the front sight (bead or light pipe) of a shotgun. Actually it's only half of a sighting system anyway because your eye is the other half. So yeah, front sight focus in many situations isn't necessary for acceptable accuracy and the result of not using it speeds things up.

    Good clays shooters know that front sight focus is the first mistake that novice shooters make. When you do that you loose your ability to track a fast moving target. Target focus is key. I totally understand the concept and have used it for many years, just not with a pistol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elwin View Post
    Totally neglected to mention it in my earlier post, but by the time I first shot a pistol I'd been shooting clays and live birds for at least 5 years, with clays shooting being a weekly thing during time off school (I started basically as soon as I was big enough to swing a youth-stocked 870 around). That may have something to do with using target focus immediately when I picked up handguns. Maybe a lot to do with it, actually.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

  10. #30
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    I have interacted with several competitive shotgun shooters including one who was an Olympic competitor. One removed the bead. All said they never saw the bead when shooting. I realized that these guys were athletes who had superb hand-eye coordination. They also had excellent eyesight. Their skill would have transferred to shooting handguns.

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