Early 70s Colt Commander questions

[awp_101]

1971 or 1972?

1971. Jackson Armory in Dallas? If so, I've never been over there but I keep meaning to fix that when I got a little more free time.

There is a reason the custom 1911 smith became a thing. It was not because the pistols ran from the factory. It was because the rule was that if the ammo was not 230-grain ball the gun would not run. If it was 230-grain ball, it still may not run. Armand Swenson and Jim Hoag was needed because 1911s were not running in the hands of people who needed them to do so, first LEOs and then others. And back then, the 1911 choices were GI surplus or Colt. And Colt did not do much to make the guns better.

I'm late to the 1911 game (less than 20 years ago) so I never made the connection between the custom smiths and general reliability. I always figured they came about driven by competition needs (Bullseye or IDPA) and because there's always someone who wants to look good while doing whatever it is they do.

None of my wants/plans are firm at this point. Heck, in the end I may end up going for a privacy fence and a small shop for wood turning and reloading.

[farscott]

The Gold Cup Trophy was offered with a decent beavertail well before the Competition model. As was the Rail Gun, though it was a descendent of the XSE line.

I guess our definition of decent beavertail might be different. I had a GCT and have a Rail Gun. The latter had a Wilson beavertail installed as the factory one was not well fit and was not consistent in terms of where the grip deactivated it.

[Greg]

There is no reason to not get an older Colt if they appeal to you. The finish and rollmarks are far better than anything they've made since the 1980s (and the 1980s aren't regarded as the highwater mark for Colt).

Better machining is found on the newer pistols, but it still takes somebody with a clue putting their hands on a 1911 to make them run well and feel good.

[tango-papa]

1971. Jackson Armory in Dallas? If so, I've never been over there but I keep meaning to fix that when I got a little more free time.

1971 - got it.

Yes, JA in Dallas. If you like old school blued steel and wood stocked guns, set aside a bit of time for your visit. Their inventory is basically a museum of guns.

http://www.jacksonarmory.com/JA/


Assuming you're aware of this link, but in case not, it's handy for checking the DOB:

https://www.colt.com/serial-lookup

[awp_101]

Assuming you're aware of this link, but in case not, it's handy for checking the DOB:

https://www.colt.com/serial-lookup

Thanks for that! I was using one off of sightm1911.org (IIRC) but I'm not sure how accurate it is.

[flyrodr]

This thread got me to take a look at a couple of older Commanders I have, both .45s. One is a Combat Commander, built in 1973. The other is a LW Commander, built in 1972. So, one steel-framed, one Al-framed. Both have the lightening cuts in the slide.

The Combat Commander I bought new, and I've mentioned on P-F before that it was customized by Armand Swenson a year or so after I bought it. Best I recall, it ran fine with hardball and 230 JHP as built, but the trigger wasn't great, and those original Colt sights were awful. It's had thousands of rounds through it, mostly range loads with Bullseye, but plenty of hardball and JHP. Can't remember the last time there was any failure. Beyond cleaning and lubing, it's only had a few spring changes.

The LWC I bought used (very slightly) and was customized by John Harrison. It was intended to be primarily a carry gun, and not often at that. I hesitate to call it a BBQ gun, but . . . whatever. It has run fine as well. John brought up the lightening cuts before doing any work. Best I recall, he noted their presence, said some people didn't want a custom gun built with them, and asked if I was aware and OK. I told him it wasn't intended to be a high round count gun, and asked if he thought that'd be OK. He did, and it's been fine.

Incidentally, I tossed them on my postal scale. The CC weighed 33.8 oz., and the LWC 24.2 oz., both without a magazine.

Loosely tying back in to the OP's question, the CC has a squared trigger guard; the LWC does not. To be honest, I asked for the squared trigger guard because, well, it was a Swenson, right. I've never used it (granted, I have smallish hands, shortish fingers). And found out back then that while holster makers would accommodate it on special order, seldom was it a stock design feature.

[tango-papa]

This thread got me to take a look at a couple of older Commanders I have, both .45s. One is a Combat Commander, built in 1973. The other is a LW Commander, built in 1972. So, one steel-framed, one Al-framed. Both have the lightening cuts in the slide.

The Combat Commander I bought new, and I've mentioned on P-F before that it was customized by Armand Swenson a year or so after I bought it. Best I recall, it ran fine with hardball and 230 JHP as built, but the trigger wasn't great, and those original Colt sights were awful. It's had thousands of rounds through it, mostly range loads with Bullseye, but plenty of hardball and JHP. Can't remember the last time there was any failure. Beyond cleaning and lubing, it's only had a few spring changes.

The LWC I bought used (very slightly) and was customized by John Harrison. It was intended to be primarily a carry gun, and not often at that. I hesitate to call it a BBQ gun, but . . . whatever. It has run fine as well. John brought up the lightening cuts before doing any work. Best I recall, he noted their presence, said some people didn't want a custom gun built with them, and asked if I was aware and OK. I told him it wasn't intended to be a high round count gun, and asked if he thought that'd be OK. He did, and it's been fine.

Incidentally, I tossed them on my postal scale. The CC weighed 33.8 oz., and the LWC 24.2 oz., both without a magazine.

Loosely tying back in to the OP's question, the CC has a squared trigger guard; the LWC does not. To be honest, I asked for the squared trigger guard because, well, it was a Swenson, right. I've never used it (granted, I have smallish hands, shortish fingers). And found out back then that while holster makers would accommodate it on special order, seldom was it a stock design feature.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure "the rules" mandate if you say you have an Armand Swenson custom Colt Combat Commander, that you "shall" post multiple photos of said gun.

Just sayin...

[awp_101]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure "the rules" mandate if you say you have an Armand Swenson custom Colt Combat Commander, that you "shall" post multiple photos of said gun.

Just sayin...

Quoted because I can only like this once.

[SW CQB 45]

Tagged for interest.

I did order a "Custom" Commander and wont see it till 2021. I get the 4.25 are a tad less reliable than the 5 inchers.

One reason I am going with a 4.25" is my arm length. With a 5", I have to tweak my body a touch for the muzzle to clear the holster. When I packed a 4" Champion.... it "broke leather" so effortlessly.

I would like to find an original blued Springer barrel bushing 4.25" model in decent condition. I am assuming they were named Champions too.

A former Asst Chief asked me to look at his .45 Colt Commander (which was the version that has the cuts in the slide). He told me it would lock the slide back prematurely. Well, when he dropped it off to me, it had an extended lever slide stop. I told him that was his problem but he want to keep it. His mags were horrible and soft springed, so I cleaned his piece, we got new mags (IIRC CMC) and it ran with the new mags the 30 or so rounds I shot through it. I hate non beavertail safety guns because of my hand size, I will get bitten.

I have a 1942 Kongsberg Colt in my office that I want to shoot, but I know it will draw blood.

On another note.... I did own a DW Valkryie 4.25 alloy frame 9mm. That piece was a dream to shoot (no felt recoil and accurate), easy to carry all day and fit very well. I only sold it to move away from 9mm 1911. I dont care for the finickiness of 9mm mags compared to .45.

[flyrodr]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure "the rules" mandate if you say you have an Armand Swenson custom Colt Combat Commander, that you "shall" post multiple photos of said gun.

Just sayin...

Thought I had posted photos some time ago, but can't find thread. Thus (with apologies for snapshot quality):

The Swenson Combat Commander:

Attachment 60959

And the Harrison LWC:

Attachment 60963