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Thread: Early 70s Colt Commander questions

  1. #1
    Ready! Fire! Aim! awp_101's Avatar
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    Early 70s Colt Commander questions

    Im considering a 1911 project for my 50th birthday in a little over a year. I’m thinking about a birth year 9mm Commander and having a .38 Super barrel fit as well (or the other way around depending on what I can find).

    It looks like .45s were available with steel or aluminum frames, what about the 9 and .38? One of my “wants” at the moment is a squared trigger guard. I know that can be done with a steel frame but I don’t know if it can be done to an aluminum frame. If it can’t and the 9/.38 were only offered in aluminum frames then I need to look into Plan B.
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  2. #2
    Hokey / Ancient JAD's Avatar
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    A buddy had a similar vintage piece. It was a combat Commander, so steel frame, and 9 mm. It had some issues. I think I would stick to 45 in a vintage colt.
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  3. #3
    Site Supporter farscott's Avatar
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    Something to consider is that early Commander and Combat Commander slides had extra cuts to reduce weight. Later production removed those cuts to save machine time and because the weight savings were not that great. The slides with the weight removed were also more likely to crack even though Colt did a good job of using radii to not create stress risers. More gunk could find its way into the extractor channel, especially as lube made its way into the channel. Material is also removed near the locking lugs. The below pics (not mine) show the cuts between the locking lugs and the barrel bushing and in the two channels along the pickup/disconnect rail. Note that the extractor is visible through the slide.

    The aluminum frame could be given a square trigger guard, but destruction of the frame is probable. I would not advise it.

    If you are going to shoot it, the best choice is a five-inch steel pistol. A 1970/1971 Government Model lacks all of the issues that a 1970/1971 Commander has.
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  4. #4
    Ready! Fire! Aim! awp_101's Avatar
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    Excellent information, thanks to both of you! Preparations B and C will move forward...
    Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits - Mark Twain

    Tact is the knack of making a point without making an enemy / Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by awp_101 View Post
    Im considering a 1911 project for my 50th birthday in a little over a year. I’m thinking about a birth year 9mm Commander and having a .38 Super barrel fit as well (or the other way around depending on what I can find).

    It looks like .45s were available with steel or aluminum frames, what about the 9 and .38? One of my “wants” at the moment is a squared trigger guard. I know that can be done with a steel frame but I don’t know if it can be done to an aluminum frame. If it can’t and the 9/.38 were only offered in aluminum frames then I need to look into Plan B.
    1971 or 1972?

    I'm looking for a steel frame 1970 Commander in .45.
    Let me know and if/when I come across the appropriate year, happy to let you know.

    Suggest check with Jackson Armory - picked up an unfired/mint 1970 MK IV S70 from them a few months ago for a reasonable price. They had a 1972 MK IV S70 in the case at the time along with a few other early-mid 70's Colt 1911's.

    Also suggest check with Collectors Firearms in Houston. Their inventory is amazing.

  6. #6
    I've got a steel commander slated for my next project. That being said, I'd recommend a 5" government in 45, or a LW commander. Steel commanders don't carry better than government models, and are a touch less reliable. It's lose-lose

    Oh, and order your holster NOW. Milt Sparks, and Sam Andrews have molds for square guards

  7. #7
    While there is a nostalgia about old Colt 1911s, the truth is that old commercial models are full of bad workmanship, poor metallurgy, and weird kinks. If you just want to look at it, they’ll be fine. If you want a shooter, I would suggest having a good ‘smith look it over before buying.

    I briefly went down this rabbit hole. It cost me quite a bit, but in the end, all my 2010s Colts were far better guns. I think a lot of people have lost sight of how far the 1911 has come in 50 years. In truth, I’d probably take a Rock Island 1911 over an old Colt, from personal experience.

    Maybe consider a Colt revolver instead?


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  8. #8
    Site Supporter psalms144.1's Avatar
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    I've got no first hand experience with Colts of that era - bought my first one in the late 80s, and my last one probably 10 years later. In that time, I owned 10+ Colt 1911s, two Detective Specials, and one "Pony" DAO .380. The DSs were excellent; the Pony ran flawlessly for the limited amount of shooting it saw. With two notable exceptions, not a SINGLE one of the 1911s worked worth a shit. None of them. I will admit, one of them was a plain-jane Officer's model, and I should have known better, but I was young and dumb at the time. The rest were Commander or Government model pistols, most of them "high end" Gold Cup, or "Combat" models. Several of them wouldn't reliably feed FMJ ammunition, and none of the problem guns would feed JHP of any kind. My experience with Colt 1911s is what drove me away from my first love, the 1911 platform, and into DA revolvers and Glocks.

    The two exceptions were a 9mm "Commanding Officer's" model - LW Commander frame with a 9mm Officer upper - great pistol, carried well, shot better; and a "budget" 1991 5" .45 that, while rough on finish and sharp enough on the slide to shave with, ran like a champ with anything I fed it, and was exceptionally accurate. Had I kept either of those two pistols instead of searching for something "better," I might never have left the Cult of Colt.

    But, everything happens for a reason, so now I'm very happy with a brace of Dan Wessons, one STI, and a lowly Range Officer...

  9. #9
    Site Supporter farscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psalms144.1 View Post
    I've got no first hand experience with Colts of that era - bought my first one in the late 80s, and my last one probably 10 years later. In that time, I owned 10+ Colt 1911s, two Detective Specials, and one "Pony" DAO .380. The DSs were excellent; the Pony ran flawlessly for the limited amount of shooting it saw. With two notable exceptions, not a SINGLE one of the 1911s worked worth a shit. None of them. I will admit, one of them was a plain-jane Officer's model, and I should have known better, but I was young and dumb at the time. The rest were Commander or Government model pistols, most of them "high end" Gold Cup, or "Combat" models. Several of them wouldn't reliably feed FMJ ammunition, and none of the problem guns would feed JHP of any kind. My experience with Colt 1911s is what drove me away from my first love, the 1911 platform, and into DA revolvers and Glocks.

    The two exceptions were a 9mm "Commanding Officer's" model - LW Commander frame with a 9mm Officer upper - great pistol, carried well, shot better; and a "budget" 1991 5" .45 that, while rough on finish and sharp enough on the slide to shave with, ran like a champ with anything I fed it, and was exceptionally accurate. Had I kept either of those two pistols instead of searching for something "better," I might never have left the Cult of Colt.

    But, everything happens for a reason, so now I'm very happy with a brace of Dan Wessons, one STI, and a lowly Range Officer...
    There is a reason the custom 1911 smith became a thing. It was not because the pistols ran from the factory. It was because the rule was that if the ammo was not 230-grain ball the gun would not run. If it was 230-grain ball, it still may not run. Armand Swenson and Jim Hoag was needed because 1911s were not running in the hands of people who needed them to do so, first LEOs and then others. And back then, the 1911 choices were GI surplus or Colt. And Colt did not do much to make the guns better. There was the accuracy improvement of the Series '70, an attempt to get the benefits of a fitted bushing. But nothing on making the guns run with anything other than 230-grain ball until the "dimple" in the barrel long past the addition of the Series '80 firing pin safety. The next improvement was consistency, courtesy of the CNC machines added in the last decade.

    So Colt is building better pistols today than ever, mostly due to improvements in metallurgy and adopting CNC machines. But Colt is no leader in making good 1911s; they gave that market away to many competitors, including Springfield Armory, STI, Kimber, and Wilson Combat. Those companies all got their start in the 1911 by doing what Colt would not do -- meeting market wants and building reliable pistols. Colt's answer to Kimber was the XS series; it was a good pistol until cost-reduced to become the XSE. It has only been recently that Colt offered a decent beavertail in a non-custom shop gun with the advent of the Competition models. Those guns came more than twenty years after STI embraced the action shooting sports.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by farscott View Post
    It has only been recently that Colt offered a decent beavertail in a non-custom shop gun with the advent of the Competition models. Those guns came more than twenty years after STI embraced the action shooting sports.
    The Gold Cup Trophy was offered with a decent beavertail well before the Competition model. As was the Rail Gun, though it was a descendent of the XSE line.

    The best guns Colt is selling these days are built by hand in the Custom Shop. But they are priced well above the production line guns, and a limited quantity are produced each year.

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