The M16 and the FBI

[DamonL]

Now I want to write up a version of INS/BICE/ICE/HSI gun I have seen come and go.
(Same job, they just keep changing the damn name of the agency)

It would be great if you did that.

[HCM]

When I went through the FBI Patrol Rifle Instructor School, the lead instructor made several weapon statements I found interesting. He advised that the SWAT guns did have the capability to take FA parts. The Bureau allowed agents to pick between a FA gun or having the fire control group replaced with a Geissele SSA. Nobody opted to keep the FA parts. The agent was also demoing with a rifle with an odd color bolt carrier group. He advised that rifles were issued with two bolt carrier groups - one for training and one for duty use.

The SSA is an option for SWAT program guns and POWs but must be installed by the gun vault.

The other BCG you are taking about are “yellow” BCGs. I don’t think they are 1 for each gun, at least not locally, rather each office has a pool of them. They are just BCG with the carrier painted yellow. They are “sacrificial” BCG for use with certain training ammo.

The story behind them is Bureau acquired a very large quantity of British surplus L2A2 5.56 ball ammunition for training use which is super dirty. Supposedly it will eventually clog the gas port in the BCG where the gas key attaches to the carrier and cause malfunctions. Hence the use of a “sacrificial” BCG.

[jnc36rcpd]

Outstanding read, Bruce. Thanks! I'll have to look up your article on the MP.

Gadfly, I look forward to your article.

[Bruce Cartwright]

When I was in Afghanistan in 2002-2003, I worked closely with a few FBI agents. They universally detested the pool pistols they had to work with, as they were not allowed to being their issued GLOCKs or any POW, but had to use the Sig P228s that were in-country.

The interesting gun I saw was an M16 variant that the agent who had it told me was built by an FBI gunsmith from an M16 or an M16A1. It had a 16” pencil barrel with (IIRC) an A2 flash suppressor, carbine length handguards, standard collapsible M4 stock, and an A1 fixed carry handle receiver. It was light, handy, pointed nicely (much more lively handling than an M4 or M16A2), and I coveted it. So much so that when I built my first AR, I basically duplicated it with the lone exception of a fixed A2 upper because I am more familiar with the rear sight on the A2 than the A1.

Duelist:

Agreed. I built a flat top, skinny barrel AR years ago and ended up selling it to a dear friend. It was/is a great "no frills" variant. Sometimes I think we hang so much stuff on our carbines that gets to be a bit ridiculous. A lightweight AR with a simple Aimpoint and light solves a lot of tactical problems in a svelte package.

Wow. You managed to shoot a Glock 21 enough to break a frame rail?

Both jealous and impressed.

Nephrology:

Yep. I kept rough track of the ammo through that G21 and when I sold it, I had fired between 32,000 to 33,000 rounds through it. It never malfunctioned with factory ammo. As a gun guy, there is a certain joy in opening a factory sealed case of 45 ammo. Thanks for the kind words.

Patience, shoot I was sad when it ended.

Thanks for taking the time to write it up and post it for us here.

Caballoflaco:

I'm glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for the kind words.

Another great post Mr. C! I so much prefer the term, family of weapons or “FOW” to the terminology "weapon system." I've been through a couple classes where a Glock pistol was referred to as a "weapon system" to the point ever time I hear it it's like fingernails on a chalkboard running through a Marshall amp.

FNFAN:

Thanks for the kind words as well. As to "FOW" you can thank Pat Rogers for that reference. Pat pointed that term out to me years ago and his logic in using it made sense.

The SSA is an option for SWAT program guns and POWs but must be installed by the gun vault.

The other BCG you are taking about are “yellow” BCGs. I don’t think they are 1 for each gun, at least not locally, rather each office has a pool of them. They are just BCG with the carrier painted yellow. They are “sacrificial” BCG for use with certain training ammo.

The story behind them is Bureau acquired a very large quantity of British surplus L2A2 5.56 ball ammunition for training use which is super dirty. Supposedly it will eventually clog the gas port in the BCG where the gas key attaches to the carrier and cause malfunctions. Hence the use of a “sacrificial” BCG.

HCM:

Right on the money. I shot some of that L2A2 and will it was filty, it was free and hence the best type of ammunition...

Bruce

[Bruce Cartwright]

It would be great if you did that.

Gadfly/DamonL:

I second that motion. Always love to hear about other agencies' gear etc.

Bruce

[Bruce Cartwright]

I do have a question now that I’ve had a minute to think about it.

Do you know if there were other long-range weapons in use for field agents in Indian Country before they trialed the AR-10 based rifles?

Caballoflaco:

Yes. My understanding was that there mere M14s available at some point. I haven't seen them, but that is what I understood was available at one point. The Gun Vault at the Academy in Quantico VA had a pile of different 308 rifles at one point, including some H&Ks. I am not sure if they were G3s or 91s. Of course we had Colt Monitors very early on. One of my very few regrets about the Job was not being able to shoot the Monitor in the Gun Vault.

Bruce

[TC215]

@Bruce Cartwright

I found out today that the Indian Country Remington R-10 .308's have been pulled from service because of too many issues, and are no longer approved weapons. The Larue LT-762 is the current IC gun.

The POW Colt Carbine is no longer approved for purchase, but they are grandfathered. The new POW carbine is a Geissele.

[Nephrology]

Thanks for the kind words.

And thank you for your excellent contributions to this forum! Really appreciate the time and effort you put into the content you share with us here - always a pleasure to read.

[WobblyPossum]

@Bruce Cartwright

The POW Colt Carbine is no longer approved for purchase, but they are grandfathered. The new POW carbine is a Geissele.

Do you know the specs of the current POW carbine? I’m curious and I’m sure some other folks are too.

[TC215]

Do you know the specs of the current POW carbine? I’m curious and I’m sure some other folks are too.

I'll send you a PM.