Instead of using the term case capacity, I should have written internal case volume which refers to that volume holding powder. The hollow section of a hbwc increases case volume. But that was never the purpose of the hollow base. The theory is that this section or skirt will expand upon firing and seal the bore thereby improving accuracy. The hbwc bullets that I have seen are soft lead swaged billets formed under great pressure from lead wire.Originally Posted by willie
I can't refute your point so I will ask you to analyze this situation. You load the hbwc with hollow section facing rearward and take pressure readings. Now reverse bullet position with hollow section facing to the front. Take pressure readings. My premise is that pressure will be greater in rounds with hollow section facing to the front. Why? Because the base is now solid and lacks the hollow space. Remember that in both examples we are seating the bullets flush. When I visualize the two examples, I see a difference in powder volume.
Okay, but here’s a “yeah, but”: the double ended WC and the HBWC aren’t the same bullet. If you flip the HBWC over, the flat end will seat deeper than the double end WC because it was longer to start with. DEWC seats the same depth, no matter which end gets inserted. The skirt in the case first sure has a hollow, but leaves the same amount of air volume under it as the DEWC because instead of forming a skirt and hollow space, the DEWC is shorter, for the same net volume inside the case for air and powder.
I will bow out of the discussion so as not to appear argumentative. Either way including using a powder charge greater than manuals recommend, the shooter will not likely blow up his revolver. I have older airweight J frames and am careful with them. Many are not aware that frame stretching is one example of excessive wear. I think metallurgical advances have reduced likelihood of frame stretching.
Just catching up with this thread.
I ended up loading and testing them . The punchline is that the Quickload may be saying one thing in theory (which is fine), my results were that in shooting, it basically made a nice heavy wadcutter load.
Over the course of a couple (actually three outings) I ran them through a 4" and 2.5" Model 19, my 4" Model Combat Masterpiece. 38 and 6" Colt Official Police. They showed no pressure signs, ejected easily and were quite accurate. I have definitely shot hotter factory loads that were labeled as .38+P. This load extracted with ease and primers were normal. I ran a number of the cases back through my Dillon to see if the primer pockets were enlarged/had issues. Nope. The new primers seated firmly and everything was normal.
I then tried them in my old and very well worn 442 and while the load was warm, it was not at all unmanageable. Not one that you want to put 50-100 rounds in a setting through your J Frame though.
I have put about 200-225 rounds of this downrange now and it is simply a good heavy load. I would not use brass of unknown origin/range pickup type stuff. For new brass and brass in good shape, it is G2G, I would not hesitate to use as a defense load. . Now I have 3/4 of an ammo can full of it set back as my "Heavy Wadcutter" load, for the rest of our current Apocalypse that seems to be happening.
In the interim, I have read some posts from some of the older guys over on the castboolits forum, and some of them have pushed their .38s much harder in playing with heavy or "full charge" wadcutter loads. I am fine right where I am at, as this load is at a good balance of performance and "shootability".
A few hundred rounds of this sitting back under your bench and a good K Frame is not a bad thing as far as I am concerned, BTW.
It is one of those things you could drop off to a family member, along with a decent flashlight in an emergency and know that they were reasonably well armed.
There is certainly something to be said for a brick simple revolver and basic old school ammo.
Simple tools that still will get the job done.
My 2yo and 2mo both have a 4" m64. Im sure ill load a ton of ammo for them before they strike out on their own but I also have an ammo can set aside for each of them for when they do. Its in my do not touch pile.
That is Awesome!
I might also consider providing them each a single stage reloader as well and a few basic tools to fill those empty cases back up. You never know, we seem to be heading in the direction of many Socialist countries. Teaching those little Wolverines the skill sets to manufacture ammo for themselves may be one of the greatest gifts of all!
Funny I hear "Silent Running" playing in the background...
..... Teach the children quietly
For some day sons and daughters
Will rise up and fight while we stood still
170 grain Keith SWC-HP powder coated bullets pushed by 5 grains of Unique. This load is more than I want to shoot in a J Frame. In fact after testing them, you can see I marked the box in the pic (and another box full of the load) "Not for J Frame".
This would be a load I would have no issue taking a broadside shot on a Mule Deer using.
A friend who is an amazing handgun hunter and very long time bullet caster makes these and powder coats them. If you guys ever want to read about a serious handgun hunter who is a DIY kind of sort, look up "IDAHO1945. He is on a few forums. He has killed more elk, bears etc with handguns than most will with rifles, and most are with bullets he has cast himself.
Super nice guy on top of it all.
That is Awesome!
I might also consider providing them each a single stage reloader as well and a few basic tools to fill those empty cases back up. You never know, we seem to be heading in the direction of many Socialist countries. Teaching those little Wolverines the skill sets to manufacture ammo for themselves may be one of the greatest gifts of all!
Funny I hear "Silent Running" playing in the background...
..... Teach the children quietly
For some day sons and daughters
Will rise up and fight while we stood still
Id love to. Id like to upgrade my lee single stage to something a little faster too. So there's one lol.
With the exception of my Dillon equipment, every single press I have has been picked up used. Garage sale finds, classifieds, etc. They can last about forever in most normal environments, so buying used is a great way to pick stuff up.
Turret presses like the old Lyman All American are great.
Here is a pic of the top end,
My .308 dies are pretty much permanently screwed into it, and the other stations are currently 30-06, but every now and then get swapped out. I might replace the 30-06 with 6.5 Manbun. Since they all take the same shell plate, it is always ready to run.
Those old Lyman All Americans can be found now and then for pretty darn good prices compared to new stuff. Same with the RCBS version.
Keep an eye on the local classifieds and estate sales!
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