Ballistic Armor for TEMS

[Sasage]

Moved down south about 1.5 years ago and now am a member of my local FD TEMs team. We operate with city SWAT as well as some other entities.

We are never supposed to be across phase line yellow during an active situation.

We would either be in an armored vehicle or sprinter van.

I have a Point Blank Plate Carrier, need plates. Leaning towards Hesco 4401. I know they are heavy but I won't be wearing them much or for long duration. I wouldn't be opposed to using the armor at a class in the future. As far as helmet goes, Galvion Viper A3 HighCut in case we integrate coms in the future.

Looking for feedback on both. Not opposed to buying a new carrier either.

[TGS]

My thoughts as a TEMS provider:

Doing work in body armor sucks, so definitely stick to the more agile profiles like the swimmers cut.

While you think you might only need it for limited duration, you will likely very easily end up wearing it for an extended period of time while you're waiting for "the word" at a staging position...most active shooter and hostage situations will likely have you kitted up for the better part of a day. Adrenaline will handle the actual work portion, but that's a pretty heavy plate and I would look for lighter.

The plate you picked out is .30 M2 AP rated. While the possibility of that threat exists, I think getting hit with a 50 BMG is a more likely threat than .30 and 5.56 AP, and obviously 50 BMG isn't something we can realistically protect against. If I were in your position and limited to the $200/plate range, I would suggest this instead which I feel is a better mix of weight vs capability for your realistic threats: https://store.atarmor.com/Hesco_L210..._p/hs-l210.htm

The weight might not sound like much, but it can make a huge difference if you're not accustomed to wearing the weight every other day.

[Mike C]

My thoughts as a TEMS provider:

Doing work in body armor sucks, so definitely stick to the more agile profiles like the swimmers cut.

While you think you might only need it for limited duration, you will likely very easily end up wearing it for an extended period of time while you're waiting for "the word" at a staging position.

The weight might not sound like much, but it can make a huge difference if you're not accustomed to wearing the weight every other day.

TGS sorry for chopping up your post. While I am not a TEMS provider or in the OP's shoes I have worn body armor a shit load. Some of TGS' points should be highlighted.

@Sasage

1. Wearing body armor sucks, mobility helps a lot when dealing with patients and in general getting over, under and through crap. Think about or try giving chest compressions to someone without a swimmers or shooters cut plates on your knees if you haven't already. From what I remember it sucks being hunched over a patient and providing care while wearing the armor or doing things like chest compressions. Your lower back will feel it more so the longer you are in it, while not a medic I have done more than my share of medical work on guys before they left the battle field to include physically moving them without a litter. There are other movements that will be easier and more comfortable with the right cut plates but I can't think of them right now. Sorry its late and I mentally struggle later in the evening.

2. You will always end up wearing that shit longer than you want or think you have to so get the lightest and most comfortable set of plates that you can within your budget that fits your needs and possible threats. Lighter matters when wearing for prolonged periods. Vest design also matters, a metric ass ton if you want to get specific. How the weight is distributed, rides and shifts with movement really makes a difference.

3. Again, weight matters and does make a huge difference as TGS pointed out, especially if you aren't using or training with it on the regular. I would advocate for the lightest most robust multi or triple curve plates you can afford that will provide the requisite protection level required for your possible threats. Obviously don't decrease threat level protection or coverage entirely for comfort.

[Erick Gelhaus]

No idea what phase line yellow is - Cold, Warm, or Hot zone might be helpful. There have been armor discussions in the LE and Accessories folders.

On the far side of 70% of assaults on cops with firearms "just" involve handguns & shotguns. However, I can't recall the percentages of handguns, shotguns, rifles used in active killer events. Maybe Greg Ellifritz has that data.

Level II and IIIA soft armor addresses that, is lighter, and gives greater coverage while doing it. Rifle rated plates cover less, are heavier, and you'll need to get side plates to protect you from side shots.

My next armor purchase will be a Velocity Systems LPAAC or something similar).

[TGS]

~25% of mass shootings involve the use of rifles. I think that number comes from the catch-all definition of mass shootings though.....when you isolate out gang activity in order to focus on the types of incidents that a TEMS provider would be working in, the percentage is much higher; the usage of plates is appropriate for his work, nor does him researching and wearing plates preclude the use of a soft vest.

[Hambo]

Moved down south about 1.5 years ago and now am a member of my local FD TEMs team. We operate with city SWAT as well as some other entities.

Why aren't these entities supplying armor?

[TGS]

Why aren't these entities supplying armor?

I can't speak on behalf of Sasage, but body armor is not a regularly provided item in EMS and TEMS "detachments" (if you will) are usually voluntary and somewhat informal and/or poorly resourced.

At my last job when I was still full-time EMS, we got an annual uniform stipend and you could use it on body armor if you wanted, but it wouldn't even cover a cheap vest in full and you still needed to replace actual uniform items. The same applied to our TEMS guys, and in reality it was essentially an out-of-pocket expense for your vest, helmet, and other TEMS-specific gear.

So, while I can't speak for Sasage, this is pretty common across America and I'm guessing the situation he falls in to. Agencies who properly equip their TEMS guys are few and far between, and most agency-wide body armor purchases I've seen are extremely poorly fitting, grossly oversized one-size-fits-all equipment that is assigned to the apparatus, not the individual employee.

[Hambo]

I can't speak on behalf of Sasage, but body armor is not a regularly provided item in EMS and TEMS "detachments" (if you will) are usually voluntary and somewhat informal and/or poorly resourced.

Interesting. Everybody on our SWAT unit, LE and medics, got the same armor and helmets. Unless they're staying inside the armored vehicle (if you have one), it seems irresponsible not to get them body armor.

[ST911]

Gold standard would be to give you the same protection that everyone else has, sized to fit, within warranty period, highest mobility and lowest weight that meets mission threats with an extra margin. Check out the other threads on armor for that, medic armor isn't special.

Tangent- "TEMS" means a lot of things. Team members or mutual aid units, inside folks, outside folks, warm zone folks, team health/sick call folks, etc. Also purpose-trained personnel vs local FF/EMTs with armor doing RTF work protected by others. Heck, there are even sports medicine and PT folks supporting teams using the label. "Medic" doesn't necessarily mean paramedic in this context anymore either. All that's okay, but know how the words used are applied.

[Sasage]

No idea what phase line yellow is - Cold, Warm, or Hot zone might be helpful. There have been armor discussions in the LE and Accessories folders.

On the far side of 70% of assaults on cops with firearms "just" involve handguns & shotguns. However, I can't recall the percentages of handguns, shotguns, rifles used in active killer events. Maybe Greg Ellifritz has that data.

Level II and IIIA soft armor addresses that, is lighter, and gives greater coverage while doing it. Rifle rated plates cover less, are heavier, and you'll need to get side plates to protect you from side shots.

My next armor purchase will be a Velocity Systems LPAAC or something similar).

Thank you, I'll check out the LE sub.

Phase line yellow is the last point of cover and concealment.