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Thread: Lancaster PA riots after clearly justified police shooting

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by ccmdfd View Post
    Allows them to cry "he was just there being a medic !!!!", even if they are actively participating in the violence.
    Sounds like the moral equivalent of, "He was just getting his life together."


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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by SPS View Post
    Million dollar bail might send a message, at least some of the little chuckle-heads will spend some time in jail.

    From the linked story, what an understatement:

    It showed Munoz, 27, approaching the officer with the knife in what appeared to be a menacing manner
    .

    A good journalist would have put it more realistically:

    It showed Munoz, 27, approaching the officer with the knife as if Munoz was auditioning for the shower scene in Psycho..

  3. #23
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    One of the arrested works in client services for LNP Media Group, the parent company of LancasterOnline.

  4. #24
    Every night we get calls for police assistance for mentally-ill family members. I would venture as far as to say that most of these calls are for children not yet in their teens--my 12-year-old is beating up my wife and I, my 11-year-old is punching and kicking holes in the wall. When I was working for the schools, I would routinely see kids that beat their parents badly-enough that to leave marks. I had co-workers with ill and disabled adult children that they'd had to call the cops on. I had a nearly five-foot-tall third-grader beat holy hell out of his mother in the driveway.

    In five or six years, stories like this are going to skyrocket. I hate that "something must be done" stuff, but some shit's broken someplace. It's not fair to the patients to keep putting them in these situations, and it's not fair to the police to expect them to keep dealing with the mess.

    Note: I'm not using "patient" to refer specifically to this case. For all I know, this guy might just have been an asshole. I saw cases like that, too--kids diagnosed with a disorder or two, but underneath their dysfunction, they were also just abysmal little motherfuckers.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Wise_A View Post
    [I]In five or six years, stories like this are going to skyrocket. I hate that "something must be done" stuff, but some shit's broken someplace. It's not fair to the patients to keep putting them in these situations, and it's not fair to the police to expect them to keep dealing with the mess.
    Yup. The problem is bigger than the police.

    It's easy to understand why people get upset. They see "We called the authorities to help with a sick person, and they showed up with guns and shot him." The police see "We saw an immediate threat with a weapon, and had to shoot him." Both of those can be true.

    We -- as a society -- should have better tools for dealing with these patients. We don't. A police response is often not what they need, but it's all we've got.

    If folks want to protest, advocating for better mental health care in their communities would be a good place to start.

  6. #26
    You can't turn these discussions rational or what is going on will get lost in logic.

    One must create an "out group" to form an "in group". Social psychology 101.

    Back in the late 30's an "out group" was created and blamed for a country's problems. The politicians involved were successful at swaying the group think.

    This is far bigger than a marxist group claiming to protect a made up oppressed group.

  7. #27
    Site Supporter ccmdfd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    Yup. The problem is bigger than the police.

    It's easy to understand why people get upset. They see "We called the authorities to help with a sick person, and they showed up with guns and shot him." The police see "We saw an immediate threat with a weapon, and had to shoot him." Both of those can be true.

    We -- as a society -- should have better tools for dealing with these patients. We don't. A police response is often not what they need, but it's all we've got.

    If folks want to protest, advocating for better mental health care in their communities would be a good place to start.
    Yeah, in the case I mentioned above to me it seems obvious that if 911 is receiving multiple calls a year for this individual, that should be a clue that something is wrong. Either he needs his medication adjusted stat, or placed in a facility that's better able to care for him, or both.

    I understand not wanting to put ones family member in a facility. Anyone with a heart can understand that. However it's probably better than the alternatives. Not only could something like what happened occur, but he could injure or kill another family member including children, or himself.

  8. #28
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    That area is practically devoid of mental health care. That is a major problem!

  9. #29
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    I like that a message was sent with the high bail. At first, I thought it was too high because it can be criticized. Supporters of riots can say something like “No one was killed. Why is the bail this high?”. And then I thought about why they did it.

    I am probably late in thinking of the following but I want to say my thoughts anyway. I think they are wanting to say that riots are devastating (I don’t need to go into how or why they are on this forum) and should be treated as such. It is not just the specific crimes committed during a riot that are important; the totality of the circumstances and damages should be considered.

    Others have already touched this topic. I just wanted to express my thoughts. I would like to see a new felony charge created: something like : Jane Doe committed the offense Participating in a Riot.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise_A View Post
    Every night ....
    Note: I'm not using "patient" to refer specifically to this case. For all I know, this guy might just have been an asshole. I saw cases like that, too--kids diagnosed with a disorder or two, but underneath their dysfunction, they were also just abysmal little motherfuckers.
    This is the grand side-effect for today's rush to bring social clout and standing to 'victims' of disabilities, etc.
    While rightfully intended to be some societal 'wiggle room' for understanding based on a person's true challenges and circumstances, instead it turned into a carte-blanche pass to be an abysmal little motherfucker without consequence.

    Blame your misdeeds and violence and bullshit on your disability and it's like waving a magic wand of 'not my fault'. Which is horse shit on the other end of the spectrum.

    We had a similar local incident a few years back involving a routinely violent frequent-flyer autistic/MR almost-adult child of a wealthy couple. IIRC he ended up tackling an officer and got his hand on the officer's holstered weapon, and the officer's partner responded appropriately to that kind of threat.
    Thanks to the way it was initially spun in the media, there was a gnashing of teeth and a lot of public bellyaching from pretty much everyone that's never been in a fistfight before. I regret that I can't remember exactly how that all played out in the end but I believe the officers were both finally cleared and returned to duty.

    I really hate how the media will include the age and 'color' physical characteristics of someone, but never a bona-fide physical description. I remember more than once reading about how LEO's or someone else shot and killed a '15 year old boy' only to read that that '15 year old boy' was 6ft2 and a well-muscled 230lbs. The Ferguson, MO incident comes to mind there.

    Quote Originally Posted by WOLFIE View Post
    ...
    Others have already touched this topic. I just wanted to express my thoughts. I would like to see a new felony charge created: something like : Jane Doe committed the offense Participating in a Riot.
    There's a part of me that loves that idea, if for no other reason than to remove the 'social armor' of those 'peaceful' protestors acting as human shields for the asshats throwing frozen water bottles and rocks and molotovs and shit. But without a clear and reasonable definition of the difference between a 'riot' and a 'peaceful protest' the implications could be very chilling if such a law was used on a truly peaceful protest for the purpose of 1A suppression, etc.

    Which, if such a definition and distinction can be made, gets things interesting because then all it takes is one total stranger in your bona fide peaceful protest to throw one bottle and make everyone in that protest and instant felon. As much as I detest the leeway the rioters have been given thus far, that's a possible fix with potentially haunting ramifications.

    Second edit - well, gotta have the local powers that be actually prosecute any of those charges for those felonies to matter...
    Last edited by JRB; 09-16-2020 at 02:13 PM.

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