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Thread: Lancaster PA riots after clearly justified police shooting

  1. #91
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    Lancaster PA riots after clearly justified police shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    Walter Wallace Jr.'s family is seeking justice but they are not advocating for the officers who killed the 27-year-old Black man to be charged with murder.

    The family, including Wallace's mother and wife who were at the scene of the killing, privately reviewed the police body camera footage of the fatal shooting early Thursday morning.

    When asked why the family, who has yet to bury Wallace, would not want to pursue murder charges against the two officers who fired seven rounds each into him on Monday, Johnson replied, "Here's why: they were improperly trained and did not have the proper equipment by which to effectuate their job."

    The family does intend to file a wrongful death suit.

    https://www.npr.org/2020/10/29/92936...murder-charges
    So how would the family propose to handle someone coming at them with a knife?

    I keep reading about Tasers, which were discussed in above posts. How else should they have de-escalated? How close should they have allowed a mentally unstable person with a knife to get?

    Have they ever actually tried defending against a knife attack by a non-compliant training partner, or expressed differently, a training partner who is simulating a realistic attack?

    The family had a tragic loss, but they are grasping at straws to find something the police did wrong.


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  2. #92
    Site Supporter RoyGBiv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillSWPA View Post
    So how would the family propose to handle someone coming at them with a knife?
    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

  3. #93
    ...it tolls for thee blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillSWPA View Post
    So how would the family propose to handle someone coming at them with a knife?

    I keep reading about Tasers, which were discussed in above posts. How else should they have de-escalated? How close should they have allowed a mentally unstable person with a knife to get?

    Have they ever actually tried defending against a knife attack by a non-compliant training partner, or expressed differently, a training partner who is simulating a realistic attack?

    The family had a tragic loss, but they are grasping at straws to find something the police did wrong.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Apparently with a good pair of running shoes. Unfortunately, there are none left on the shelves following the protests looting.

    (I am actually sorry for their loss, but going at the police with a knife is one of those "actions have consequences" moments.)
    "Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." - Sun Tzu // "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." - Mike Tyson

  4. #94
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    My agency was one of the very first to adopt the Taser X26. I’ve done a LOT of UOF investigations for a taser deployment over the years. They are an option, BUT they do NOT work 100% of the time in neutralizing the threat. If you are going to deploy a taser at a suspect armed with a knife, you need to have another officer ready to immediately transition to lethal force, as a fall back option.

    I’m tired of hearing people talk about non-lethal options like chemical irritant (mace, pepper spray), stun guns and tasers like they are instantly effective at neutralizing a violent armed suspect. Maybe they watched too much Star Trek as a kid. Mr Spock could set his phaser to Stun and neutralize a suspect. In reality world, it doesn’t always work that way...

    From the video I watched, which was the same one we all saw, that Police Intervention Use of Force (shooting) was as about as justified as it gets.

    If anyone honestly thinks they can always talk someone down who is intent on killing them with a knife, they’re fooling themselves. Grab a psychic who can conjure up the ghost of every murder victim ever killed with a knife who begged their life and ask the ghost how well that worked out.
    Last edited by Beat Trash; 10-30-2020 at 10:34 AM.

  5. #95
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    In Wallace’s case the police had already been to his residence at least twice that day. He appears to have been the poster child for why de-escalation doesn’t always work.

    I was texting with a previous co-worker who is counting the shifts till retirement and advised buying stock in less lethal munitions. My agency issued LL shotguns to sergeant and above a few years ago. The one use before I retired involved an EDP with a knife in a standoff with two State Troopers. When our guy rolled up with the orange shotgun he said that the EDP’s eyes got big and he became sane enough to try to flee. Two beanbags later he was laying on the road like a squirrel hit by a semi and quite compliant.

    Of course the “Peaceful Protestors” would still burn down whatever they couldn’t steal because the police still “shot an aspiring rapper”.
    My opinion if anyone cares:
    We were robbed!
    I’ll take “Reasons 2020 sucked” for $400, Alex

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    Walter Wallace Jr.'s family is seeking justice but they are not advocating for the officers who killed the 27-year-old Black man to be charged with murder.

    The family, including Wallace's mother and wife who were at the scene of the killing, privately reviewed the police body camera footage of the fatal shooting early Thursday morning.

    When asked why the family, who has yet to bury Wallace, would not want to pursue murder charges against the two officers who fired seven rounds each into him on Monday, Johnson replied, "Here's why: they were improperly trained and did not have the proper equipment by which to effectuate their job."

    The family does intend to file a wrongful death suit.

    https://www.npr.org/2020/10/29/92936...murder-charges
    There's that word. "Justice". I feel like Inigo Montoya now when I hear people say that. What exactly would "justice" look like to them? Don't get me wrong, I have sympathy for the poor mother who witnessed her son being shot.....but folks have been "taught" expectations of outcomes by television, pundits and politicians that have no relation to reality.

    I sit on our departments Firearms Discharge Review Board. A case we reviewed YESTERDAY involved an off duty officer in a neighboring city. The officer interrupted a carjacking by a boxcutter armed murderer (separate crime) in a gas station. Officer was attacked by the suspect and cut, drew his firearm and shot the suspect once. It put him down....temporarily. When officers from the neighboring city showed up, the suspect was still armed. They tased him three freaking times. It had no effect. The suspect walked over,, jumped in a police vehicle (complete with long gun!), and drove away. Fun chase! Cop cars chasing cop car! It ended a short time later with another, fatal, OIS.

    My department does not, and never will have tasers. Orange 870s with CTS supersock rounds are our only standoff less lethal tool. In my experience....they work only on people that pain compliance works on. Not the crazy, or drugged up, or enraged. There is no phaser on stun setting.

    Any intervention in this man's problems needed to happen long before this incident. Thats the problem that folks just don't want to acknowledge.

  7. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by AMC View Post
    .....but folks have been "taught" expectations of outcomes by television, pundits and politicians that have no relation to reality.
    While your whole post was SO on point, the above just rings so true, as to where we are right now in society.
    Excellent job.
    Makes me want to take you out for your favorite ice cream, cause you put words to my thoughts, in a better way than I could.
    "And for a regular dude I’m maybe okay...but what I learned is if there’s a door, I’m going out it not in it"-Duke
    "Just because a girl sleeps with her brother doesn't mean she's easy..."-Blues

  8. #98
    Life is good RJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMC View Post
    There's that word. "Justice". I feel like Inigo Montoya now when I hear people say that. What exactly would "justice" look like to them? Don't get me wrong, I have sympathy for the poor mother who witnessed her son being shot.....but folks have been "taught" expectations of outcomes by television, pundits and politicians that have no relation to reality.

    I sit on our departments Firearms Discharge Review Board. A case we reviewed YESTERDAY involved an off duty officer in a neighboring city. The officer interrupted a carjacking by a boxcutter armed murderer (separate crime) in a gas station. Officer was attacked by the suspect and cut, drew his firearm and shot the suspect once. It put him down....temporarily. When officers from the neighboring city showed up, the suspect was still armed. They tased him three freaking times. It had no effect. The suspect walked over,, jumped in a police vehicle (complete with long gun!), and drove away. Fun chase! Cop cars chasing cop car! It ended a short time later with another, fatal, OIS.

    My department does not, and never will have tasers. Orange 870s with CTS supersock rounds are our only standoff less lethal tool. In my experience....they work only on people that pain compliance works on. Not the crazy, or drugged up, or enraged. There is no phaser on stun setting.

    Any intervention in this man's problems needed to happen long before this incident. Thats the problem that folks just don't want to acknowledge.
    Spot fucking on.

    And to answer the question, you can call me an unfeeling asshole but these days, too many think "Justice" = "Multi-million dollar payout." Sorry, not sorry.
    "Tho' much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now, that strength, which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are. One equal temper of heroic hearts, made weak by time and fate, but strong in will. To strive, to seek, to find; and not to yield." --Tennyson. USPSA#92555

  9. #99
    Site Supporter the Schwartz's Avatar
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    All of this just goes to prove that once we start qualifying the conditions of "justice" with some sort of prefix and a hyphen (-) before the word "justice" itself, we can be almost perfectly assured that "justice" was never the objective in the first place, just social engineering.
    ''Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity.'' ―Albert Einstein

    Full disclosure per the Pistol-Forum CoC: I am the author of Quantitative Ammunition Selection. www.quantitativeammunitionselection.com

  10. #100
    Accused M&P Cultist Joe in PNG's Avatar
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    I wonder if Gropey Joe would be so quick to condemn his SS detail if they shot a crazy black dude charging him with a knife?
    "You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose." - William Aprill
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