Is 10+1 Rounds Enough?

[RJ]

For the OP, all I read was ‘I shoot the HK better’ so seems to me that’d be the choice.

Chances are though, none of us armchair keyboard shooters will be involved in a gunfight. Still, first rule and all that, so bring a gun. I’ve decided my life expectancy will be enhanced first by not doing stupid things with stupid people in stupid places (Mr. Farnham’s rules), then by getting myself in shape so I have more cardiac reserve, and lastly getting training and being proficient with my carry gun.

For walking the dog inside our gated apartment complex, situated on an island at the end of a 3 mile causeway, it’s a Ruger LCR. If I have to venture out, it’s a 10 or 12 round gun, currently either a P365 or P365XL. While sleeping its a G19 with a G17 mag; because, you know, Zombies.

[inkslinger]

I say it’s an unanswerable question. Maybe yes, maybe no. Hope for the best and prepare for the worst....

[BehindBlueI's]

I worked Homicide & Robbery for six years in a pretty busy office. I worked hundreds of shootings and had access to many, many more years of case files. For random violence (ie, not targeted as in domestics or dope dealer on dope dealer type events) capacity was irrelevant to outcome. Speed, surprise, and ferocity of attack won the day. J-frame, Glock, knife, golf club, if the "defender" employed the weapon as a surprise and with sufficient ferocity (pulling the trigger instead of just brandishing, slicing open the attacker's abdomen instead of just showing the knife) the good guy won 100% of the one on one encounters and damn near all the multiple attacker scenarios. The multiple attacker scenario losses or draws were not capacity limited, they were time or tactics limited. Shoot the bad guy in front of you, catch a bullet right next to the spine from the bad guy behind you that you were unaware of. Pull a gun with an empty chamber, get dogpiled and killed without getting a shot off. That sort of thing.

Do you have a crazy ex-domestic partner who's willing to die to kill you? Are you a likely target for a dope rip? Capacity can come in to play. Is your biggest threat an addict mugging you at the ATM? It's irrelevant. Literally everyone in those situations had won or lost before the gun was dry. Some ran the gun dry anyway, but it didn't make a difference. Targeted violence, I've seen folks dead with "high capacity" guns in their hands. Glocks, semi-auto SMG replicas, those little AK "pistols". Very few got to shoot them empty, they were dead before then. At least one could have done better if his "proper equipment" included not wearing his pants under his ass and falling down in the street with his pants around his ankles and then sucking up a bunch of 7.62 as he emptied his Glock from a seated position at two aggressors behind cover.

I am no stranger to violence, either as an investigator or participant. I am 100% fine traveling around the country with a .357 magnum revolver, a healthy situational awareness and conflict avoidance skill set, and a reluctance to insert myself into other people's problems.

[jeep45238]

Depends on my skill with that firearm to an extent, but the reason I jumped up in capacity to a different firearm was population density. Part of that jump was the ability to have a weapon light and a red dot on the slide, which dramatically changes what I can do since I can see better at more times of the calendar day.

My job is in a rural college area, and during work it's a J frame due to population, location, and that we're always on a team. After work, heading back to a dense population area for this region, I switch out.

X% of bad actors times Y population in a given small area = more potential problems.

[John Hearne]

Yes.

[RevolverRob]

Hell, for the last week, I've been carrying a LCP with 7-rounds of .32NAA. Not even a spare mag.

Before that, 5 rounds of .38 and 5 more spare rounds.

Ultimately, capacity doesn't seem to account for much (see BehindBlueI's post above). As much as having a gun (review of Tom Givens data, the few losses and forfeits come from not having a gun or getting ambushed).

Review the nature of assaults in your area and make your own determinations. The ones I have seen in my area are typically 1-2 muggers perhaps a 3rd driving a getaway. They target people walking along on their phones. When victims fight back they usually flee, because it's easier to steal from victims who don't fight back.

[TCinVA]

There are multiple ways to look at it.

Capacity is opportunity. The more bullets you have, the more opportunities you have to score the hits necessary to stop someone from inflicting lethal levels of violence on you. While one bullet might work, expect it to take at least 5 to stop someone who is intent on a fight from completing their goal.

Capacity is time. With more bullets, you are able to keep lead in the air for a longer amount of time. With a typical double stack handgun that is likely to be more time than the bad guy trying to hurt you wants to spend in the path of your bullets.

Capacity is not capability. Having more bullets doesn't automatically mean you can put them where they are going to do you some good. While there are bad guys out there that will piss themselves and run if a scared, incompetent person produces any weapon by surprise, there are also bad guys out there who aren't impressed by the appearance of a weapon and will have to be actually defeated by prolifically perforating their vital organs.

A capable person...with "capable" being defined as someone who has deliberately cultivated technical skills in the use of a weapon of some sort paired with deliberate cultivation of the mindset necessary to produce it and get to work when the situation calls for it...is likely to be successful against most violent criminals even if they have extremely limited capacity. Capable people will give you a fight, and most bad guys are not looking for a fight when they are out committing a violent crime.

A capable person who runs into a committed criminal...with "committed" being defined as a violent criminal who is perfectly happy to engage in an unexpected fight...might prevail with very limited capacity if they have cultivated a very high level of skill paired with a higher than average ability to think their way through a bad situation. Generally a capable person is more ready for a committed criminal than committed criminals are for a capable person because capable people are much, much rarer beasts in the bad guy's world than committed criminals are to the capable person. Even so, the capable person with limited capacity is likely going to need a little bit of luck on their side to have better than even odds against the committed criminal.

A capable person who has greater capacity is able to maximize the benefit of opportunity and time that capacity brings and as a result is unlikely to lose. As an example, if a crew of six bad guys busts into the house of a random family, that's going to be a bad day for the occupants. If one of the occupants of the house has taken the effort to attend high quality training on the defensive use of the shotgun, has selected good ammunition for the purpose of home defense, and has spent some time working on the skillsets presented in those classes, within seconds of the violent criminals breaking into the house you can expect that multiple members of the crew will lay paralyzed and rapidly bleeding to death from well-aimed buckshot payloads.

There may be more bad guys than there are shells in that defender's shotgun, but it is unlikely that the entire crew is made up of completely committed criminals who, after watching their accomplices blown to hell right in front of them, will insist on continuing to press the attack.

Or, to borrow a real world example, a police officer watching over a cartoon contest with a high-capacity sidearm who sees two islamist radicals roll up with long guns and immediately engages them with deliberate and lethally accurate fire is able to totally monopolize the critical opening seconds of the attack with his offensive action, thoroughly decimating them despite their advantage in numbers and firepower. Had he been armed with a J frame it is unlikely he would have been as successful.

Capacity isn't everything. But it's not nothing, either.

[Clark Jackson]

...In a day and age where multiple attackers in a self defense situation is far from an impossibility (or multiple feral dogs, etc), is 10+1 rounds on board really enough?...

Good question and it looks like there are fair amounts of good opinions/perspectives in the thread. I agree with everyone who mentioned the importance of obtaining high quality training and using the gun(s) with which you are most proficient. I also agree the election and results may drastically alter the equipment issue/debate. I would caution against any equipment changes if those changes involve moving off a potentially AWB-proof tool to one with verboten-status.

I have a personal rule (which I picked up from someone else) that may help you decide on your individual course of action.

My personal rule: Carry ≥ 15 rounds of ammunition with at least 1 reload.

No matter what you carry, you will have a minimum of 15 rounds and 1 reload (J-Frame = loaded gun and x2 reloads; G19 = loaded gun and 1 reload; etc.). The 1 reload minimum is not about capacity but the potential for malfunctions with the currently loaded ammunition or source of ammunition feed. Alternatively, this reload could be achieved with a back-up/secondary gun depending on your training, situation, and preferences.

Don't get lost in the weeds with some of the ageless "C-arguments": caliber, capacity, and c-this-one-time....

Stolen Quotes and Rando Stuff:

1) Accuracy is King.

2) Volume is Queen.

3) Figuring things out for yourself is the only freedom anyone really has. Use that freedom and make up your own mind. (yep, Starship Troopers quote y'all)

Good luck with your equipment selection and stay safe.

[TCinVA]

As for reloads:

It's uncommon for someone to be able to successfully reload a handgun in a typical fight. While some people can reload a semi-automatic pistol very quickly, generally it takes longer to get a pistol emptied in the fight reloaded and back into action than the remainder of the fight is going to last. Very few people run around in competition gear, and very few police officers or concealed carriers have cultivated the ability to get a pistol reloaded in under 3 seconds.

Having multiple reloads isn't a bad idea, but total rounds on your person isn't generally as relevant as how many rounds you have immediately on tap at kickoff. And, of course, whether or not you can put those rounds where they will do some good.

There are, of course, atypical fights and situations where multiple reloads and total round count on your person may become relevant.

[spinmove_]

As someone who’s bounced around from platform to platform too much, stick with what you can shoot best. If capacity really concerns you, find a way to carry more in the gun with as close to what you’re familiar with as possible. So if you’re rocking an HK 45C now maybe snag an HK USP 9 or 9C. Basically the same everything, you’re just going to a smaller chambering for more ammo on board. You may very well be able to shoot extremely well with a Glock, but I’d be willing to bet real money you’d be up and running even faster with a USP 9/9C.

With a handgun you’re just poking holes regardless of ammo selection. Just make sure you're able to poke holes exactly where you want them to go.