Remington's Ammo Business for Sale

[HCM]

FWIW when I bought my 11.5" upper from them last black friday, i think they had consolidated down their lines. There was no premium vs freedom vs ptac, just different barrels (FN sourced chrome line, nitride, SS, etc). I went for the nitride because I wanted a $230 PSA upper that might work and not a $330 PSA upper that might work. I also made sure to get one with a pinned FSB because I reasoned as long as it wasn't canted they probably couldn't fuck that up too badly.

Upper so far seems acceptably accurate and nothing's exploded yet, but the raison d'etre behind that AR pistol was to be as cheap as possible. At about $600 including the used PA optic, I am pretty satisfied

Yes, they did. And PSA bought a barrel company 2-3 years ago and the barrels from their subsidiary are better than their prior stuff.

[DDTSGM]

The first half of this is true, the proof is FN's OEM price-list. They will make you a $200 barrel to a $400 barrel (I recall there are 7 grades?), the difference being the machine time and reject rate you are willing to pay for. The $200 barrels are the minimum FN will send out the door. That is a difference between FN (and many others) and the PSA's.

The FN barrels used in PSA's original guns, subsequently known as their premium line guns are not rejects, but they are $200 FN barrels. A $200 FN barrel is not a bad barrel, but it is also not the same thing as the higher end barrels they make for BCM, Noveske, etc

I can understand that premise, the problem is knowing for sure what grade is being purchased by whom.

Since you were talking PSA and BCM, I'll use them as examples:

In 2018, PSA reported making 21,992 rifles to ATF, BCM reported making 7,001; In the same year, PSA reported making 198,392 'misc' firearms, BCM, on the other hand, reported making none, which I find kind of strange since 'misc' firearms should include receivers.

Nonetheless, apparently PSA bought 3 times as many barrels to make rifles as BCM did. If you were a barrel company, would it just be within the realm of possibility that if someone was buying more barrels than someone else, you'd give the guy buying more a better deal? Isn't that pretty common place?

Now, we don't know the percentage of rifles with FN barrels that PSA sold, nor do we know the percentage of rifles with FN barrels that BCM sold. When you consider complete uppers, same deal. The numbers in the ATF report don't include uppers, and I'd bet PSA sold a shit pot more uppers than BCM did.

What I'm trying to say is that without data to support either of our sides, what we are talking is conjecture. And, as far as I'm concerned the economic logic doesn't necessarily point to PSA buying lowest grade FN barrels. It's that damned economy of scales stuff.

The guys who started BCM and PSA were opportunists, they saw an opportunity and jumped on it. They simply chose different business models. PSA grew too fast, BCM expanded more slowly. From my point of view, PSA's philosophy is quantity of sales based on lower price with reasonable QC; BCM's is smaller quantity, higher QC, and correspondingly higher prices.

It's all good, myself, I don't buy as much PSA stuff as I do other brands. Although, when I put a pencil to it recently, t was surprising to me to find out how much I have have spent buying ammo from PSA over the last two years. I wouldn't hesitate to buy one of their lowers, but their logo doesn't trip my trigger.

[Baldanders]

Older or newer Trooper? I've always lusted after one of these:

Attachment 60250

Mine's a MkIII with the half-barrel underlug, 4".

[HCM]

I can understand that premise, the problem is knowing for sure what grade is being purchased by whom.

Since you were talking PSA and BCM, I'll use them as examples:

In 2018, PSA reported making 21,992 rifles to ATF, BCM reported making 7,001; In the same year, PSA reported making 198,392 'misc' firearms, BCM, on the other hand, reported making none, which I find kind of strange since 'misc' firearms should include receivers.

Nonetheless, apparently PSA bought 3 times as many barrels to make rifles as BCM did. If you were a barrel company, would it just be within the realm of possibility that if someone was buying more barrels than someone else, you'd give the guy buying more a better deal? Isn't that pretty common place?

Now, we don't know the percentage of rifles with FN barrels that PSA sold, nor do we know the percentage of rifles with FN barrels that BCM sold. When you consider complete uppers, same deal. The numbers in the ATF report don't include uppers, and I'd bet PSA sold a shit pot more uppers than BCM did.

What I'm trying to say is that without data to support either of our sides, what we are talking is conjecture. And, as far as I'm concerned the economic logic doesn't necessarily point to PSA buying lowest grade FN barrels. It's that damned economy of scales stuff.

The guys who started BCM and PSA were opportunists, they saw an opportunity and jumped on it. They simply chose different business models. PSA grew too fast, BCM expanded more slowly. From my point of view, PSA's philosophy is quantity of sales based on lower price with reasonable QC; BCM's is smaller quantity, higher QC, and correspondingly higher prices.

It's all good, myself, I don't buy as much PSA stuff as I do other brands. Although, when I put a pencil to it recently, t was surprising to me to find out how much I have have spent buying ammo from PSA over the last two years. I wouldn't hesitate to buy one of their lowers, but their logo doesn't trip my trigger.

I think a better example of a company that simply had growing pains is CMMG.

Great early products, had assembly and supply issues as they grow quickly but they held the line on QC as best they could and fixed their issues. They are an under rated brand, particularly their new PCC line.

[Nephrology]

I think a better example of a company that simply had growing pains is CMMG.

Great early products, had assembly and supply issues as they grow quickly but they held the line on QC as best they could and fixed their issues. They are an under rated brand, particularly their new PCC line.

They make one of the best LPKs on the market IMO. Certainly one of the best values.

[DDTSGM]

Equilibrium has been reached. CMMG is good stuff.

[RevolverRob]

Presumably, since JJE Holdings bought Remington as opposed "PSA bought Remington Ammo" this is a bid to diversify investment holdings and not an effort to make PSA-branded ammo (which would be an abysmally poor decision).

In my opinion, JJE should not cross the streams, because that is a classic mistake.

Remington Ammunition is a solid product line. It needs to merely be refined a bit (offerings simplified, really). And then left alone. It's a one of those rare things where you can buy a $65 million dollar turn-key business that is unlikely to lose value. Because JJE is not saddled with the same debt structure as Remington - they undoubtedly will be able to make real money.

But they should leave everything the fuck alone.

I ASSume that did not buy Remington's ammo holdings for the purpose of selling that line solely through PSA. That would be an unmitigated disaster of a fuckup. Remington Ammo/UMC/Barnes etc have thousands of clients to do business with. PSA does not, can not, do the level of business on the retail side of things that thousands of retailers in the U.S. can do.

[Zincwarrior]

Indeed. PSA current line have almost nothing to do with Remington.

Remington will need investment to get it's maintenance schedule on check, then leave it alone.

[BWT]

I think PSA is a really intelligent company and I appreciate their actual 2A values.

Now, I will say they’re smart to part out stuff.

So, for example:

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...microbest.html

This BCG received an awesome review from Instructor Chad on YouTube.

But, like you guys are griping about an upper - you bought at like 40-50% less than a BCM upper for example.

Personally, their AK Klone (custom) is also getting great reviews from like AK Operators Union.

I think if you understand their tiers of products and price points. They actually make some quality stuff.

But, they also survived the bubble bursting on guns by having a lot cheaper products TBH.

They’re like the primary company I can look at that’s done well in the Obama years and Trump years. They also actually are Pro 2A and unashamed about it.

I own some stripped lowers from them and I own a number of their D&H magazines with Magpul ATF followers (which I liked before), but that’s subbed out wisely IMHO.

I think if you look at this for what it is - they’re a solid company.

I don’t think it’s the best company ever and all of my AR’s are BCM. Now, I will say based on that BCG they Gave to Micro Best... I think that might be able to go toe to toe with a BCM BCG.

[farscott]

Big update from https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/re...ts-bushmaster/

Vista Outdoor, Inc. as the Successful Bidder pursuant to the terms of the Asset Purchase Agreement attached hereto as Exhibit A with respect to the Lonoke Ammunitions Business and certain IP assets; and SIG Sauer, Inc. as the Backup Bidder thereto pursuant to the terms of the Asset Purchase Agreement attached hereto as Exhibit B with respect to the Lonoke Ammunitions Business;

Roundhill Group, LLC as the Successful Bidder pursuant to the terms of the Asset Purchase Agreement attached hereto as Exhibit C with respect to the non-Marlin Firearms Business; and Huntsman Holdings, LLC and Century Arms, Inc. as the Backup Bidders thereto pursuant to the terms of the Asset Purchase Agreement attached hereto as Exhibit D with respect to certain Firearms Business IP assets and Exhibit E with respect to certain non-Marlin Firearms Business inventory, respectively;

Sierra Bullets, L.L.C. as the Successful Bidder pursuant to the terms of the Asset Purchase Agreement attached hereto as Exhibit F with respect to the Barnes Ammunitions Business; and Barnes Acquisition LLC as the Backup Bidder thereto pursuant to the terms of the Asset Purchase Agreement attached hereto as Exhibit G with respect to the Barnes Ammunitions Business;

Sturm, Ruger & Company, Inc. as the Successful Bidder pursuant to the terms of the Asset Purchase Agreement attached hereto as Exhibit H with respect to the Marlin Firearms Business; and Long Range Acquisition LLC as the Backup Bidder thereto pursuant to the terms of the Asset Purchase Agreement attached hereto as Exhibit I with respect to the Marlin Firearms Business;

JJE Capital Holdings, LLC as the Successful Bidder with respect to the DPMS, H&R, Stormlake, AAC, and Parker brands;

Franklin Armory Holdings, Inc., or its designated assignee, as the Successful Bidder with respect to the Bushmaster brand and certain related assets; and

Sportsman’s Warehouse, Inc. as the Successful Bidder with respect to the Tapco brand.

So Remington ammo will be under the same umbrella as CCI, Federal, and Speer. Ruger will have Marlin; that should be very interesting as Ruger has the engineering prowess to do something with Marlin's lever action business and the Goose Gun. On the other hand, the Marlin 60 might be in trouble. DPMS, H&R, Storm Lake, AAC, and Parker will have the same corporate parent as PSA.