We recently had a veteran tell the USPSA Range Officer that the Marines had taught him all about handling firearms.
Right before he shot himself in the leg.
As reconstructed, he loaded his new CZ and slammed it into the new racer holster without setting the safety, the RO yelling "Stop, Sto-" BANG. Apparently hitting the clamp block of the holster at an angle that brought it against the trigger.
The surgeon was scheduled to dig the bullet out last Friday.
Code Name: JET STREAM
I have always been hesitant to correct other people in the fear that I would make a complete and utter ass out of myself by erring in my correction.Originally Posted by JonInWA
Ignore Alien Orders
I was at an IDPA in Vegas and watch a guy put a .45 through his right butt cheek just under the skin. Enough cant on the holster that it didn't involve his thigh or foot. Just a nice hole running right beneath the skin. His main concern was that his wife, a nurse was going to kick the other cheek when he got home. He was LE if I remember correctly.
-All views expressed are those of the author and do not reflect those of the author's employer-
To be honest, I was in the Guard. I did shoot plenty of M9... but my service was pretty vanilla compared to most.
Not to divert but you can find the less common brands of 9mm FMJ for 60 to 80 cents per round. If you did want the M45 ish gun (have we decided that meant the Marine 1911 in the Army), a buck a round. So getting twenty for the underwear drawer gun wouldn't break the bank.
I did see a G17 Gen 4 in the LGS a week ago.
To beat on the same drum--no. Here's what good CCW training will cover that is, frankly, you've not been exposed to yet.
(1) Legal issues regarding use of force, including concepts such as the reasonable person doctrine, duties to retreat, immediacy, disparity of force, proportionality of response, and so on. No, it is not good enough to just be able to say you know these things, you should be able to cite the class or book where these concepts were discussed.
(2) Vetting and maintaining a carry pistol. I know that you're not prepared to do this, because you answer: "one reason i'm asking about the quality of a gun is so i don't have to take it out and shoot all the time", and "let's just keep it at how to purchase a pistol and the different brands of pistols so i find one that is a good pc. and i don't have to worry if it will work if i ever have to use it". It doesn't matter if you purchase a custom-made, hand-fit defensive pistol--if you don't shoot it yourself, with the ammo YOU intend to carry, in YOUR hands, then you don't have the slightest idea if or how well it will function.
(3) Carrying a handgun. You are not going to be using the same holsters, for instance, that you did in the military. If you are, then frankly, you're doing it wrong. Inside the home, this would also ideally cover use of a white light in conjunction with your handgun for threat verification. In addition, there are a multitude of safe handling procedures that are not relevant to military or LEO, that a citizen carrier must necessarily employ. Handguns serve VASTLY different purposes in the civilian and military worlds.
(4) Drawing and firing. Qualifying "expert" with a pistol has no bearing on citizen readiness, and isn't particularly challenging anyway.
(5) Mindset. This is everything from learning pre-attack behaviors, to verbal and nonverbal communication, to lifestyle changes. For instance--you say you want to have a gun for home defense. Where are you going to keep it? If you can't lay your hands on it immediately, then you don't have a home defense gun at the ready. I'm sitting here with a G26 IWB'd. There's a spare 10-round magazine in my pocket for 20 rounds total. Because it's on my person, it's accessible, and I have control of it.
If the "online course" you took didn't cover these things, then it was either just a rubber-stamp class to cover state mandates, or it wasn't very good.
Other stuff:
You absolutely do. In the most brutally honest of terms, if you've never experienced degradation of skills, then you don't have very much skill.but i do not believe you lose your skills
I've been a competitive shooter for 22 years--my entire adult life and then some. I still regularly seek advice from experts in fields I haven't mastered, and frankly, from those who are better than me. That's what makes a person good. Even the best nationally-recognized instructors spend huge amounts of time taking each other's classes, because they know that that's what makes them good instructors.just to keep this from becoming a shoot out i know how to use weapons. i do not need any advice from anyone on how to use one.
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As to "what gun" for home defense, my advice is simple: whatever gun you shoot often. Bonus points if it's also your carry gun, or if you wear your CCW at home. At times, my home defense gun has been a 6" S&W 629 with hot .44 Spl, my Glock 26 carry gun, a G34, and now an H&K USP Expert with the G26.
If you're more familiar with the long guns, go with the long guns. They're better anyway. If you don't have dependents in other rooms of the house, you've very little need to move and clear your house anyway. If you're not shooting your long guns regularly, then pick a likely candidate and do so.
A handgun offers advantages such as being easier to hold while operating a phone or light, and being sized to carry with you throughout the day. Long-term, I would suggest a Glock 17 or 19. In the current panic, and given that you're not likely to have easy access to 9mm to practice with, I would actually suggest a Glock 37 or 38 in .45 GAP, or a 22 or 23 in .40 S&W. Both of these cartridges are currently a little more available than 9mm. I know that at one point, .45 GAP carry ammo was priced under 9mm bulk plinking ammo.
If you can't get a Glock, anything in the full-size to compact range from Ruger, Smith and Wesson, Walther, Sig Sauer, or H&K will work fine. A S&W M&P with a thumb safety will be a little closer in manual of arms to the 1911 you're already used to. I would highly recommend avoiding a DA/SA automatic unless you actually plan on practicing drawing and reholstering (and frankly, getting some training). Training into the habit of decocking before reholstering is necessary to avoid shooting yourself in the foot.
I would suggest a 1911, but having a couple and having had to handle a bunch more that various shooters had issues with at the range--no, I would not recommend one given your overall outlook on firearm maintenance and inspection.
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If you're not going to seek training--again, brutal honesty--from what you've said, I would not get a defensive gun. I would consider a knife or a pointy stick. You're either going to lull yourself into a false sense of security, get murdered with your own gat once somebody takes it off you, shoot your toes off, or go to prison. It's a choose-your-own-adventure of suck.
Last edited by Wise_A; 09-07-2020 at 08:41 PM.
At a SC match about a week ago a dude put a round into a ground in front of him that way. Not sure how he didn't shoot his foot off.
2011 in a game holster. The dude forgot to unlock the holster. When he could't pull the gun out, he started to rock, push and pull, and whatever else people do when shit gets stuck.
Obviously, he had disengaged that thumb safety first thing his hand went on that grip.
Signature line quote "I d/qd for the same thing with this holster 2 years ago. I guess I need a different holster."
Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.
22 years in the U.S. Army often/usually comes with a DD214. A DD214 + a valid state i.d. or driver's license should qualify for Glock's "Blue Label" discount program, available through select Glock dealers. Original Poster (OP Corvairbob) please see:
https://us.glock.com/en/buy/blue-label-program
One's "Blue Label" dealer can be found by entering one's Zip Code here (but do look for the Blue Label symbol/icon:
https://us.glock.com/en/dealer-locator-usa
For an example, a $600 Glock might sell for ~$425, if that seems worth it to someone who qualifies.
I've come across some folks/retirees who don't want to bother with a $175 savings, however, coupled with driving to the dealer, sometimes the savings can get eaten up with driving costs and time.
Here's a store's website (in Calif. but just as an example) with some Blue Label prices just to get an idea:
https://www.lcaction.com/guns/glock?...f9a51dcdbbeeae
I also have zero experience building an 80% Glock and have no desire to do so. I do highly and generally recommend Glock, however.
There is a temporary discount program available to veterans in the "Salute to Veterans Program". I don't know how long this program will stay in effect or what the end-date is.
Last edited by L-2; 09-07-2020 at 10:02 PM.
It's not the catalog of NDs and DQs, it's the attitude that the Marines or Army turned out a finished pistol shooter.
I know they can but not everybody or even very many are in one of the specialized units that gets the necessary training and frequent practice.
Code Name: JET STREAM
Firing an M60 in short bursts will burn out a barrel, never trained or was trained to use 3 round burst.
FM 3-22.68 paragraph 5-10 (proper rates of fire)
(1) Sustained Fire. Sustained fire for the M249 is 85 rounds per minute in bursts of 3 to 5 rounds. The M60 and M240B are 100 rounds per minute in bursts of 6 to 9 rounds. The gunner pauses 4 to 5 seconds between bursts. The barrel should be changed after firing at sustained rate for 10 minutes. This is the normal rate of fire for the gunner.
(2) Rapid Fire. Rapid fire for the M249, M60, and M240B gunner is 200 rounds per minute in bursts of (6 to 8 M249) 10 to 12 rounds. The gunner pauses 2 to 3 seconds between bursts. The barrel should be changed after firing at a rapid rate for 2 minutes. This procedure provides for an exceptionally high volume of fire, but for only a short period.
(3) Cyclic Fire. Cyclic fire uses the most ammunition that can be used in 1 minute. The cyclic rate of fire with the machine gun is achieved when the trigger is held to the rear and ammunition is fed into the weapon uninterrupted for one minute. Normal cyclic rate of fire for the M249 is 850 rounds, M60 is 550 rounds, and for the M240B it is 650 to 950 rounds. Always change the barrel after firing at cyclic rate for 1 minute. This procedure provides the highest volume of fire that the machine gun can fire, but this adversely affects the machine gun, and should only be fired in combat under emergency purposes only.
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