Prism Scopes

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I recently purchased one of these from Primary Arms:

https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-...-62x39-reticle

I have been blown away by it! I love the reticle, the glass is clear and bright, it’s fast on target, the eye box is huge, and seems extremely well built. In fact it is in my opinion, the best “combat” type optic I have ever used. I’m seriously considering picking one up with a 556 reticle.

If it wasn’t made in China - I would probably sell all my EoTechs and Aimponts and replace them with these prism scopes. They are that awesome.

As for 3x - a similar scope to the one I purchased is available in 3x. I went with the 2x as it was going on an AK and don’t see the need for any higher magnification and this is a newer model. My only concern with 3x would be a slightly slower target acquisition time. I have been unable to notice any slow down in my ability to engage targets versus a 1x red dot but with the AK, working the safety is the bottle neck for me.

Do you shoot both eyes open? If so do you have the issues described in this post? https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....=1#post1108999

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I have Vortex Spitfire 1x, Leupold 1x, and the new Aimpoint micro-sized Bushnell Lil P 1x.

I also have astigmatism. I find the lack of clarity of the dot on Aimpoints annoying. However, I find the comments in the prior post about target focus are accurate.

With one eye closed, any of the 1x prisms is good, with a nice clear reticle. However, with two eyes open, I find there is enough misalignment between the images that my brain ends up seeing a bad picture. It's a situation similar to the two views of the front sight when shooting two eyes open, but I can't get my brain to either discard one or resolve them. It looks to me like all of these 1x prism scopes are actually slightly less than 1x; my brain aligns the two images it's receiving near the outside perimeter of the scope image, which causes the aiming point to be misaligned. It ends up being pretty significant.

In contrast, my Aimpoint Micro H1 gives a perfect image when using it both eyes open, with an imperfect dot that's still quite a bit smaller than my offhand accuracy.

A month or two ago, I spent easily an hour just switching back and forth between all four optics and checking my results at about a 50-yard distance. My current thinking is, if it's on a gun where the speed and situational awareness of two eyes open may matter, the Aimpoint is by far the way to go.

I've been told that the T2 usually reduces the astigmatism effects, but I haven't tried one yet. Hmmm... I should check Labor Day sale prices.

I cant help but wonder if this phenomena is pequliar to your eyesight as I havent found a reference to the same thing anywhere else. Regardless Im convinced. Ive got a buddy that works at a place that might have open box returns. Im going to see if I can borrow an Aimpoint to try. Thanks for the input.

[OlongJohnson]

There's no question I have some odd stuff going on with my eyes. Optometrist keeps telling me I'm better than 20/20, but there's still weirdness.

[Suvorov]

Do you shoot both eyes open? If so do you have the issues described in this post? https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....=1#post1108999

I do shoot both eyes open. I have not experienced the same issues noted. This is the only Prism scope I have any experience with other than looking through. It may be due to the wide field of view and eye box that Gucci Garand Thumb mentioned, but I find it as easy and quick to get a sight picture as I do either an EoTec or Aimpoint, but with a vastly superior reticle.

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I do shoot both eyes open. I have not experienced the same issues noted. This is the only Prism scope I have any experience with other than looking through. It may be due to the wide field of view and eye box that Gucci Garand Thumb mentioned, but I find it as easy and quick to get a sight picture as I do either an EoTec or Aimpoint, but with a vastly superior reticle.

Have you had a chance to shoot it at night with a weapon light? When you say vastly superior could you explain why?

[Suvorov]

Have you had a chance to shoot it at night with a weapon light? When you say vastly superior could you explain why?

I have not had the chance to shoot it at night with a light. Probably won't happen until winter when I have the ability to shoot at my range in the dark.

As for why I find the reticle superior to either my Aimpoint or EoTech - simple: it provides more capability in terms of ranging and bullet trajectory compensation, it's horseshoe offers a large aiming point for close in targets while the cheveron point (which is the one thing I miss from my Trijicon Tri-power) provides for precision work as well.

[stomridertx]

I've owned and shot the Burris, Primary Arms, and Vortex 3x prism sights. I really thought those reticles were way cool, and I was able to achieve good speed with them. However, I'm going to continue my role in the thread as "that guy" and play devil's advocate for the red dot.
As a civilian user of a defensive carbine, what distances am I likely to shoot? For defense, I have a hard time visualizing a scenario beyond 100 yds if I'm really defending. If I'm hunting with 5.56, I would limit myself to 200 yds. If I'm at the range and want to stretch out, the furthest distance I have a location to shoot at is currently 350 yds. As nice as those BDC reticles are, with a 100yd zero on red dot sight you only need to know one holdover point for 300 yds, and it's easy to visualize. If I really need to glass a threat at long distance, shouldn't I be doing it with binoculars or a monocular and not a gun? Me honestly analyzing those questions are what led me back to a red dot sight despite my cursed astigmatism and cross dominance. Here's why I put up with a fuzzy dot:
1. Red dots add minimal weight to the gun and the mounts don't have to be leveled.
2. Red dots are superior for hitting at speed what your naked eye can see unaided.
3. Quality red dots are less expensive than the best LPVOs or prism sights.
4. Red dots make my cross dominance irrelevant and allow me to shoot rifles with my dominant hand. (This is an often overlooked HUGE advantage to red dot sights.)
6. I feel like you are better off spending money at the optometrist than on really high end glass a defensive carbine.
7. While the 3x flip to side magnifier gets a lot of hate, it's a pretty good solution for taking a red dot equipped carbine for zeroing or out into the field to stretch its legs.
8. While BUIS are not the absolute necessity they used to be, the ability to see them through the unmagnified glass of a red dot is a really nice feature.
9. Uncompromised, both eyes open, target focused shooting with no eye relief issues is a significant advantage and why red dot pistols are also taking off now.
I'm not saying LPVOs are not worth it. They make a lot of sense for 3Gun competitors, Patrol Officers, and Soldiers who have a real need to go from 0-600 yds quickly and as effectively as possible. For me, I'd rather have a red dot equipped fighting carbine and a dedicated longer distance gun. One more thing to observe is right now the industry is moving towards offset or scope mounted red dots even on LPVOs. There are a lot of users spending money to pair an offset or top mounted red dot paired with a Vortex Razor or Nightforce ATACR LPVO, why do you think they would do that when they have the best thing going in the LPVO world already?

[O4L]

I think that 1x doesn't mean what you think it does.

In the case of the Spitfire 1x and a couple of others that I have looked through, 1x = Zero magnification.

For my old eyes with an astigmatism, it works just like a circle/dot red dot but the etched reticle circle/dot is very clean and clear as opposed to a regular red dot.

[Hizzie]

I have a ton of trigger time behind the Trijicon TA33 3x30 horseshoe reticle. I’ve ran it 3-300 yards daylight and 3-100 low light. I find it extremely useful, natural and fast even up close. I’ve also spent considerable time behind the Trijicon TA44 1.5x16 circle dot. That little optic has been run 0-100 day and night. I really enjoy prisms as I see them clearly. It’s hard to argue the utility of the LPVO but eye relief is an issue on the AK. The Primary Arms 3x isn’t bad. It’s big and heavy but absolutely usable and relatively inexpensive way to try out the concept. The PA 1X isn’t bad either. Neither have Trijicon glass. I know Mike of Swampfox. I know they put a ton of effort to make their prisms stand out above anything else at the price point.

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Continuing the search had the opportunity to look through a Trijicon MRO Patrol yesterday. I have looked through the standard MRO before and the dot was not ok with my eyesight. For some reason maybe Trijicon upgraded them? or maybe the anti flash filter on this model the dot was perfect. With and without glasses. For me thats huge. Looked through an Aimpoint patrol at the same time and it was a cluster of dots without glasses.
Ive only found one prism to look through and it was very clear but the narrow field of the eyebox was a definite negative.
At this point Im considering ordering a Steiner PX4i Amazon Prime because I cant find one locally just so I can look through it and no hassle returns. I can get one at dealer cost locally but its a special order and I cant return it.