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Thread: Prism Scopes

  1. #1

    Prism Scopes

    I have need for some type of optic on a rifle. Ive looked at all the red dots and my astigmatism makes it look like a scribble. Ive also looked through some scopes with illumination and run into the same problem.
    I finally had the opportunity to try a prism scope today and its the best solution Ive found so far.
    Reading reviews it seem like the Sig prism scopes get the best reviews. The lowest power they offer is a 3x fixed.
    Does anyone here have any experience they can share concerning these type scopes and thoughts on a fixed 3x.
    I'll wager you a PF dollar™ 😎
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  2. #2
    Glock Collective Assimile Suvorov's Avatar
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    I recently purchased one of these from Primary Arms:

    https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-...-62x39-reticle

    I have been blown away by it! I love the reticle, the glass is clear and bright, it’s fast on target, the eye box is huge, and seems extremely well built. In fact it is in my opinion, the best “combat” type optic I have ever used. I’m seriously considering picking one up with a 556 reticle.

    If it wasn’t made in China - I would probably sell all my EoTechs and Aimponts and replace them with these prism scopes. They are that awesome.

    As for 3x - a similar scope to the one I purchased is available in 3x. I went with the 2x as it was going on an AK and don’t see the need for any higher magnification and this is a newer model. My only concern with 3x would be a slightly slower target acquisition time. I have been unable to notice any slow down in my ability to engage targets versus a 1x red dot but with the AK, working the safety is the bottle neck for me.
    Last edited by Suvorov; 09-05-2020 at 05:48 PM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Suvorov View Post
    I recently purchased one of these from Primary Arms:

    https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-...-62x39-reticle

    I have been blown away by it! I love the reticle, the glass is clear and bright, it’s fast on target, the eye box is huge, and seems extremely well built. In fact it is in my opinion the best “combat” type optic I have ever used. I’m seriously considering picking one up with a 556 reticle.

    If it wasn’t made in China - I would probably sell all my EoTechs and Aimponts and replace them with these prism scopes. They are that awesome.

    As for 3x - a similar scope to the one I purchased is available in 3x. I went with the 2x as it was going on an AK and don’t see the need for any higher magnification and this is a newer model. My only concern with 3x would be a slightly slower target acquisition time. I have been unable to notice any slow down in my ability to engage targets versus a 1x red dot but with the AK, working the safety is the bottle neck for me.
    I've been looking at that specific optic for a few months now. I just finished putting together a new 12.5 AR and that 2x optic makes a lot of sense in that application. The BDC even works out with a 100 yard zero and 12.5 velocities with the lowest dot being 400 yards.

  4. #4
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  5. #5
    Site Supporter stomridertx's Avatar
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    One day I will make an in depth post on this, but in short I would suggest not to give up on the red dot just yet. I have astigmatism so bad that the best I can do to correct it is hard plastic gas permeable contact lenses, and even then I still get slight starburst effects with bright light.
    I went down this path with prism optics and one day when shooting a red dot again I realized that I was chasing a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. When I'm staring at a red dot intensely, it looks something like a geriatric stripper on a pole instead of a perfect dot. However, when target focused and using the dot it's more of a red smudge on target. That smudge is a smaller point of aim than an iron sight front post on an AR-15. If you can get over what the red thing looks like, it will serve you well. The technology is too beneficial not to work through and take advantage of it. Here's some points to consider:
    1. Outdoors in daylight the dot will be cleaner, and that's when long distance shots are taken at zero magnification.
    2. If you really do need a perfect dot to shoot a hair off a gnat's ass at 100yds, look through the rear aperture of the BUIS. This will also eliminate parallax.
    3. Target focus, all the time.
    Shoot it for a while and look at your results instead of the dot, you might change your mind.
    Last edited by stomridertx; 09-05-2020 at 08:18 PM.

  6. #6
    Site Supporter OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    I have Vortex Spitfire 1x, Leupold 1x, and the new Aimpoint micro-sized Bushnell Lil P 1x.

    I also have astigmatism. I find the lack of clarity of the dot on Aimpoints annoying. However, I find the comments in the prior post about target focus are accurate.

    With one eye closed, any of the 1x prisms is good, with a nice clear reticle. However, with two eyes open, I find there is enough misalignment between the images that my brain ends up seeing a bad picture. It's a situation similar to the two views of the front sight when shooting two eyes open, but I can't get my brain to either discard one or resolve them. It looks to me like all of these 1x prism scopes are actually slightly less than 1x; my brain aligns the two images it's receiving near the outside perimeter of the scope image, which causes the aiming point to be misaligned. It ends up being pretty significant.

    In contrast, my Aimpoint Micro H1 gives a perfect image when using it both eyes open, with an imperfect dot that's still quite a bit smaller than my offhand accuracy.

    A month or two ago, I spent easily an hour just switching back and forth between all four optics and checking my results at about a 50-yard distance. My current thinking is, if it's on a gun where the speed and situational awareness of two eyes open may matter, the Aimpoint is by far the way to go.

    I've been told that the T2 usually reduces the astigmatism effects, but I haven't tried one yet. Hmmm... I should check Labor Day sale prices.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlongJohnson View Post
    I have Vortex Spitfire 1x, Leupold 1x, and the new Aimpoint micro-sized Bushnell Lil P 1x.

    I also have astigmatism. I find the lack of clarity of the dot on Aimpoints annoying. However, I find the comments in the prior post about target focus are accurate.

    With one eye closed, any of the 1x prisms is good, with a nice clear reticle. However, with two eyes open, I find there is enough misalignment between the images that my brain ends up seeing a bad picture. It's a situation similar to the two views of the front sight when shooting two eyes open, but I can't get my brain to either discard one or resolve them. It looks to me like all of these 1x prism scopes are actually slightly less than 1x; my brain aligns the two images it's receiving near the outside perimeter of the scope image, which causes the aiming point to be misaligned. It ends up being pretty significant.

    In contrast, my Aimpoint Micro H1 gives a perfect image when using it both eyes open, with an imperfect dot that's still quite a bit smaller than my offhand accuracy.

    A month or two ago, I spent easily an hour just switching back and forth between all four optics and checking my results at about a 50-yard distance. My current thinking is, if it's on a gun where the speed and situational awareness of two eyes open may matter, the Aimpoint is by far the way to go.

    I've been told that the T2 usually reduces the astigmatism effects, but I haven't tried one yet. Hmmm... I should check Labor Day sale prices.
    The H2 does the same for slightly less money unless using NODS vs a a near peer NOD equipped opponent is in your wheelhouse.

  8. #8
    I use a Spitfire 1x and it works great for me.

  9. #9
    Site Supporter stomridertx's Avatar
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    I and many others have found that the Holosun HS510C has the cleanest dot with astigmatism. Outside with my GP contacts in I get a perfect dot with that optic. I also find that all of the miniature red dots used on pistols give me a perfect dot outdoors. I have a theory that the open style design that reflects the LED beam straight to your eye instead of through another pane of glass has less refractive error on astigmatic eyes. The emitter is a lot more refined as well on the Aimpoint T2, MRO, and in my experience all of Holosun's optics. If your immediate reaction to my first sentence is "FUCK CHINA!" then you might look at mounting a Trijicon RMR on an AR riser and trying it out.
    My experience tells me that the crappiest looking LED red dot site outperforms 1x magnified optics every time when it comes to speed and awareness, but the margin gets less the more money you spend. The 1x prism optics like the Vortex Spitfire work better than low cost LPVOs. If you do decide to go prism or LPVO, diopter adjustment is critical to really get the 1x to work right.

  10. #10
    Gucci gear, Walmart skill Darth_Uno's Avatar
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    I recently got a Swampfox Trihawk (fixed 3x). For the optic itself, it seems to be fairly robust and should hold up well for medium-ish use (range, drills, etc). My initial impressions after sighting in and shooting out to 100 yds is that I like it very much.

    As far as a fixed 3x of any flavor, that really seems to be the sweet spot. Improved accuracy at a distance, without too much of a sacrifice in speed up close. I’m sure you or I could close that speed gap with more practice.

    I’ve played with other people’s 1x prisms and didn’t see the benefit. You trade the infinite eye relief of a red dot for a sharper dot/reticle which, as some of you all have explained very well, you don’t really need. Although if you just like it better, this is America so that’s a good enough reason.

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