Fiocchi 357 Magnum JHP 148gr and 158gr. Any Users? Good for Self Defense?

[Wicked City]

Hello,

Has anyone used/tested Fiocchi's 357 magnum JHP offerings in 148gr and 158gr? These had been some reasonably priced JHP rounds pre-pandemic but I could never find any testing on them. I'm particularly interested to see how they function out of a 4in barrel. Do they reliably expand? Do they over penetrate in gel?

Even if you have run them in another barrel length, feel free to chime in. I purchased a few boxes but have yet to run them at the range. I don't have access to a chronograph or ballistic gel, though.

Do any of you recommend Fiocchi in general for a 357 mag self defense round?

Here are the rounds in question on their website:

https://fiocchiusa.com/357-magnum-14...x-20bx-cs.html
https://fiocchiusa.com/357-magnum-15...x-20bx-cs.html

[Baldanders]

I also have no chrono, and I have no experience with these two (fairly recent?) loads.

But the Extrema .357 158 grain load by Fiocchi is about the mildest recoiling .357 I have shot---milder than Gold Dot short barrel .357 and it feels like a warm .38+p in my 2" 640 Pro. No idea if the XTP bullet will expand much at that low velocity. Their 140 grain FMJ felt similar in recoil impulse.

In general, Euro JHP not using American-made bullets seems to not expand worth a damn. I can attest that is the case with 10mm PPU 180 grain JHP which zips through 3 jugs of big kitty litter filled with water the long way leaving pinholes as it penetrates. (didn't recover any bullets)

In a 4" gun, my choice out of the .357 I have lying around would be short barrel Gold Dot or Critical Duty. Stiffer recoil than the Extrema, but still not bad even in my 640. Both seem fine in gel tests.

[jh9]

I would avoid Fiocchi magnum ammo just out of an abundance of caution.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-rev...rrel-wear.html

It's an old thread and the picture is gone, but I remember it clearly. The level of flame cutting and forcing cone erosion from 2k of Fiocchi's 142gr truncated cone was mind blowing. I suspect they probably use a much faster burning powder than domestic companies.

This more recent thread still has a pic on page 1, showing similar damage beginning at a much lower roundcount from the same Fiocchi ammo:

https://www.rugerforum.net/threads/g...rosion.371067/

Someone else using fast burning powders in magnum loads:

https://www.rugerforum.net/threads/g...rosion.369459/

A friend of mine did the same thing to a 586 with magnum doses of Unique. Eventually had to send it back to Smith to replace the barrel. (I guess they didn't think the flame cutting on the topstrap was bad enough to trash the frame.)

Also, as mentioned, they're old hollow point designs. Get what you can get now, but I wouldn't plan on shooting a lot of it.

[Wicked City]

I also have no chrono, and I have no experience with these two (fairly recent?) loads.

But the Extrema .357 158 grain load by Fiocchi is about the mildest recoiling .357 I have shot---milder than Gold Dot short barrel .357 and it feels like a warm .38+p in my 2" 640 Pro. No idea if the XTP bullet will expand much at that low velocity. Their 140 grain FMJ felt similar in recoil impulse.

In general, Euro JHP not using American-made bullets seems to not expand worth a damn. I can attest that is the case with 10mm PPU 180 grain JHP which zips through 3 jugs of big kitty litter filled with water the long way leaving pinholes as it penetrates. (didn't recover any bullets)

In a 4" gun, my choice out of the .357 I have lying around would be short barrel Gold Dot or Critical Duty. Stiffer recoil than the Extrema, but still not bad even in my 640. Both seem fine in gel tests.

I would avoid Fiocchi magnum ammo just out of an abundance of caution.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-rev...rrel-wear.html

It's an old thread and the picture is gone, but I remember it clearly. The level of flame cutting and forcing cone erosion from 2k of Fiocchi's 142gr truncated cone was mind blowing. I suspect they probably use a much faster burning powder than domestic companies.

This more recent thread still has a pic on page 1, showing similar damage beginning at a much lower roundcount from the same Fiocchi ammo:

https://www.rugerforum.net/threads/g...rosion.371067/

Someone else using fast burning powders in magnum loads:

https://www.rugerforum.net/threads/g...rosion.369459/

A friend of mine did the same thing to a 586 with magnum doses of Unique. Eventually had to send it back to Smith to replace the barrel. (I guess they didn't think the flame cutting on the topstrap was bad enough to trash the frame.)

Also, as mentioned, they're old hollow point designs. Get what you can get now, but I wouldn't plan on shooting a lot of it.

Thanks, yeah looking at these Fiocchi 148gr and 158gr hollow points, the hole doesn't seem very big so it makes me question whether they will reliably expand from a revolver with a 4in barrel. I'm just surprised there isn't video documentation, especially since these rounds were on the cheaper end for jhp.

The potential flame cutting issues are ugh. I have about 350 rounds total of the 148gr and 158gr. I'll keep a look out when I start shooting them.

I do have some Hornady Critical Duty, so I'll reserve that for my true self defense ammo. I've seen favorable tests for it.

[BehindBlueI's]

I've seen a couple of real world shootings with Fiocchi, but I don't recall which weights even if I ever knew. They didn't expand and didn't stop in the person. Hornady Critical Duty did expand, but also didn't stop in the person. I only know they expanded based on wounding and the exit holes in clothing.

[03RN]

A friend of mine did the same thing to a 586 with magnum doses of Unique. Eventually had to send it back to Smith to replace the barrel. (I guess they didn't think the flame cutting on the topstrap was bad enough to trash the frame.).

Thats disconcerting

[03RN]

As for fiocchi. Ive never had any issues shooting the stuff. Their 148gr jhp is pretty accurate but has a small hp. I still have some so ill try to take some pictures. The ogive of the bullet cause ftf in my M92 everytime.

[jh9]

Thats disconcerting

I didn't see his 586 so I can't compare it to the pics. The takeaway for me was that Unique isn't a great magnum powder even though it's basically all I use for .38 special.

When it comes to reloading magnums, I look skeptically at anything that burns faster than 2400. Peak pressure is the thing most folks look at but it's just one facet of reloading. Burn rate is important too. You can get away with fast burning powder in lower doses. I shot at least a couple thousand +P+ (just barely over +P) .38s with titegroup with no meaningful wear. Bump that up to full tilt magnum though and the story changes.

I don't think you'll see the erosing/cutting problems shown with any quality domestic .357 or .44 magnum ammo. It's an edge case for foreign made ammo and handloads that step on the gas with the wrong types of powder.

[03RN]

I didn't see his 586 so I can't compare it to the pics. The takeaway for me was that Unique isn't a great magnum powder even though it's basically all I use for .38 special.

When it comes to reloading magnums, I look skeptically at anything that burns faster than 2400. Peak pressure is the thing most folks look at but it's just one facet of reloading. Burn rate is important too. You can get away with fast burning powder in lower doses. I shot at least a couple thousand +P+ (just barely over +P) .38s with titegroup with no meaningful wear. Bump that up to full tilt magnum though and the story changes.

I don't think you'll see the erosing/cutting problems shown with any quality domestic .357 or .44 magnum ammo. It's an edge case for foreign made ammo and handloads that step on the gas with the wrong types of powder.

My m66 has gone through 8lbs unique. Mostly 7gr under 158gr hardcasts but some .38s as well.

[jh9]

My m66 has gone through 8lbs unique. Mostly 7gr under 158gr hardcasts but some .38s as well.

I assume you're probably fine if your barrel and top strap are still in good shape. Change the recipe to something nearer to 10gr with a 110/125gr bullet and that could change I guess at similar round counts. (8000 rounds total, if my math is right for a 7gr charge and an 8lb jug).