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Thread: .22LR trainer: conversion bolt vs dedicated upper vs 15-22

  1. #11
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    Feb 2016
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    North Georgia
    I've got a 15-22 that's at about 10k rounds, most suppressed, I started to have some really odd malfunctions last week only to notice that I at some point lost the extractor. I generously lubed the BCG, and it resumed operating normally, somehow. Keep in mind in 10k I haven't cleaned the gun once, it has been left in my barn, in the dust and humidity, just generally treated terribly, but it has continued to run. Accuracy has been acceptable for my needs, definitely not a .25 MOA gun or anything, but it works well enough. Mag's work great, I haven't had any issues that I can recall, they're easy to load for younger/novice shooters, they also lock back reliably. I wish it were a bit heavier and the rail a bit longer, but overall I've been extremely happy with the 15-22.

  2. #12
    Site Supporter jandbj's Avatar
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    Sep 2012
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    SNH
    I fooled with a few options in the conversions and dedicated uppers for my AR. In the end I LOVE the 15/22 SBR with now over 30k through it. Mostly suppressed. I too had the OOB extractor flinging event. Probably around the 15k rounds when that happened. I think I’ve only had to detail strip and clean all the gunk out of the trigger group twice in all this time. The 15/22 is by far the easiest choice in a rimfire AR trainer. And it’s a crapload of fun too.

    Get a McFadden machine lightnin grip magazine loader for it too.

  3. #13
    Member
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    May 2019
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    Lititz, PA
    I've been through this a couple of times. I would go dedicated upper. It's probably the most expensive but it's also likely to get used the most because the other options are a pain in the ass.

  4. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Oklahoma
    I've had 2 of the M&P 15-22's, the first one was right after they came out and it had to be sent back for the upgraded spring kit. Ran great for thousands of rounds after that. My daughter would shoot 1100 rounds every Saturday and learned the platform very well. She moved off and I wound up trading it for a 640-1 but I figured I'd get another one someday.

    A year ago I bought an M&P Sport model with the Mlock rail on it and it's been flawless. I shoot Steel Challenge with it sometimes and even won the first match I shot with it. It has a B5 SOPMOD stock on it, MagPul K2+ grip, Geissele SSP trigger, KNS pins, a Sig 4H red dot, BUIS's, a light and a few other odds and ends to add weight. I did add a BCM Mod 0 brake to make it louder so the shot timer will pick it up more reliably. It's never choked on any ammo and works exactly like a real AR. I like it.

  5. #15
    Hammertime
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
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    Desert Southwest
    Quote Originally Posted by jandbj View Post
    Get a McFadden machine lightnin grip magazine loader for it too.
    Ordered and really excited to get this!

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Glock View Post
    Ordered and really excited to get this!
    It's a game changer. You'll need a lot more ammo.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by TicTacticalTimmy View Post
    As the title suggests, I am looking at getting a 22lr for the sole purpose of cost-effective training to acquire skill with my ar-15. I'm looking at all the different options, and would like feedback from those who have already gone down this road.

    My current thinking is to buy the CMMG conversion bolt, a few cmmg/blackdog mags, and the Borebuddy reliability upgrades. I'll also be getting a Primary Arms red dot that I will zero for 22lr. That should allow me to switch fairly quickly at the range between 5.56/.22lr, and the handling characteristics would be identical to my normal AR except for no recoil.

    Down the line I figure that I will buy a 22lr barrel and collar to improve the accuracy and turn my upper into a dedicated .22lr upper. That would happen after I build a 2nd 5.56 upper, which at current prices I could afford to do after shooting <2000 rounds of 22lr instead of .223. That is my thought process / justification.

    The S&W M&P 15-22 seems like it will be the most reliable and easiest solution. However, by the time I buy furniture and a trigger to replicate my real gun, the cost would be the same as buying the conversion kit and then a complete upper down the road. For all that it will be much lighter and balanced differently so I don't feel it will translate over to 5.56 skill as easily.

    Thoughts/suggestions?

    Suggest consider a dedicated .22lr AR upper - with your stated long term goal, the end costs will be about the same.
    I have a Tactical Solutions AR M4 .22LR Complete upper and it's been very accurate/reliable in that role for several years.

    I sourced the TacSol upper from CSTactical (they currently have them in stock at $550).

    https://www.cstactical.com/tactical-...complete-upper

    If you get a dedicated 22 upper, at a minimum, be sure to also get a "pressure plug" to keep the bolt properly seated. I have a TACCOM Pressure plug, but from what I can, or more accurately can't find, they are no longer available.

    Bore Buddy has a pressure plug along with other "reliability upgrades" as you mentioned, that look to be solid.
    Last edited by tango-papa; 09-05-2020 at 01:24 PM.

  8. #18
    Site Supporter Bigghoss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    Anna Kendrick's fantasies
    Quote Originally Posted by 757_Magnum View Post
    Boonie Packer mag adapter for 15-22 mags, which provides real LRBHO and cheap mags.
    I wish I had heard about these earlier when I asked about a .22 trainer for my work gun. Ordered one to try out.
    Quote Originally Posted by MattyD380 View Post
    Because buying cool, interesting guns I don't need isn't a decision... it's a lifestyle...

  9. #19
    Site Supporter stomridertx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Lubbock, TX
    I went with the newer M&P 15-22 model with the m-lock plastic handguard to use as a trainer. The only investments I needed to make it like my main AR-15 was a Vortex Crossfire red dot, Troy BUIS, a cheap collapsible stock with a QD swing swivel, Magpul MOE-k grip, cheap m-lok qd sling adapter from Botach, and a cheap UTG light mount that mounts a spare Surefire G2X light in the same spot as my much more expensive light on my AR.
    I don't regret that purchase for a second. I shoot that gun all the time and my kids love to shoot it. When I'm working as an RSO I let people new to AR-15s shoot it all the time to get them hooked on the platform. It's a fantastic gun, and unlike a conversion it is a useful .22 rifle all on it's own besides being a trainer. The accuracy is really good with mine and there's no reason I couldn't use it as a varmint gun.

  10. #20

    Tipmman 22

    I picked up a Tippmann Arms M4-22 Elite last week after finding one in stock. I had been looking for one for a while after hearing positive reports on them. I had originally planned on building a .22 upper using Tac-Sol parts until I heard about the Tippmann.

    My requirements were:

    16" barrel for training purposes
    Metal M-Lok handguard
    As close to a AR controls as possible.

    I wanted to create/build a .22 AR for training purposes as well as for the kid as she's getting old enough to start shooting. I have also considered doing some Appleseed events and the S&W M&P is banned.

    For those not familiar, the Tippmann M4-22 rifles are made by the Tippmann paintball marker company. They've only been out a few years. They are not widely known, but perform well in reviews. The receivers are aluminum (though seem to be cast and not the same quality as a good AR), use (some) AR triggers, have a standard AR BHO, and can use standard AR furniture. The charging handle is plastic but operates as standard, only having a much shorter pull.

    Before hitting the range, I pulled the factory iron sights off the rifle (plastic sights similar to M-BUS), installed KAC 600m sights, removed the factory grip for a MIAD, and replaced the shaky factory stock for a CTR. I also installed a picatinny rail for a bipod and a KAC barricade stop. I'm waiting on the M-Lok QD adapter I ordered to show up.

    I got a chance to fire it for the first time yesterday at the range. My goal at the range was to get it zeroed with the KAC sights and test function across available ammo. I shot roughly 200 rounds utilizing Blazer bulk pack, Federal Champion bulk pack, Winchester Super-X bulk pack, and crappy old Remington Golden bulk pack. I shot roughly 50 rounds of each. Due to the ammo shortage, I couldn't find any match grade quality to really test accuracy.

    I started off with the CCI. Every 10 to 15 rounds it would have a severe malfunction (FTF). The second time it FTF'd, magazine disassembly was required in order to clear it due to the round being stuck in the magazine.

    Setting the Blazer aside, I switched to the Federal Champion. Functioning was flawless. It worked very well with the Federal.

    I next tried the Winchester Super-X. It was a lead bullet and not plated. The Super-X does not function well in my dad's 10/22 so I was not hopeful in the Tippmann. Surprisingly, it functioned flawlessly also.

    Lastly, I finished off a very old box of Remington Golden bullets. I've always considered them one step above absolute junk. The Tippmann even fed the Remington, though it did have one FTF over 50+ rounds fired.

    So, upon initial blush, the Tippmann may be a serious contender for a .22 AR trainer. Here's my PRO/CON list:

    PROS:
    seems to have good accuracy
    AR-sized mags fit in mag pouches for training
    utilizes some aftermarket AR triggers
    AR controls
    reliability seems good with the right ammo

    CONS:
    The factory selector is plastic and sluggish (this is admittedly nitpicky)...they're making a ambi replacement that is steel that I will probably buy. I don't want ambi selectors but hate sluggish selectors on ARs. I would just not install the ambi side.

    Like most (all) .22 autos, it can be ammo sensitive.

    That's really it. So far, I'm happy with my purchase. I feel that it will provide plenty of fun training for the kid and myself.

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