I'm heavily invested in the P320 platform. Recently, at a two day course my 320 started choking with failure to extract. It had already gone back to Sig the year before for extraction issues. I ordered new parts from MGW and so far so good but it doesn't leave me with a warm fuzzy feeling for the P320. My duty G17 hasn't had a single issue.
I've been tempted, but have seen no reason to suddenly start trusting the company, so remain untrusting of their products.
I have a few SIG products. P226, P229, multiple P320 X-Fives and P320 X-carries, 2 P365’s and a SIG556 rifle with mostly Swiss internals and furniture. Lots of their optics as well.
What has put me off SIG is the constant beta-testing foisted onto the public rather than in the workshop. Constant, non-trivial changes to the designs (how many revisions have we seen on both the 320 and 365 platforms? More than 10 in my experience). Optic cuts that are proprietary and have had at least four revisions with no backward compatibility. Optic systems that have had uncountable and non-transparent revisions as well. Desirable features that are quietly dropped from products for the sake of increased margins (target crowns, precisely fitted barrels in the example of the X-Carry is a low-hanging-fruit example).
Product improvement for increased reliability is one thing, but the constant change cycle on nearly all their products, with the possible exception of legacy alloy-frame pistols, points to a real lack of internal attention to detail. One gets the sense that “if it’s good enough then put it out the door”.
When I compare that to some other makers, HK in particular, the issue becomes relatively glaring. And that contrast has me keeping my SIG products in the safe rather than in my holster. If I ever get to a point where I really want to sell a firearm, something I have never done, those will certainly be the first to go.
I just came back to a p365 after I had issues with a previous version dropping the back plate. I guess they updated the striker to fix that. I got some 12 round mags and they’re US made with a different finish than the Italian ones. I hope they work, but I’m expecting issues. Sig gonna Sig.
The p365 is enough better than its competitors to me that I’m willing to give it another shot. I will vet this more heavily than a Glock and feel like I need 2 at least to always have one that’s fully functional. I’ll probably feel better with 3.
What I don’t know is what is a good full size auxiliary pistol for me. As much as I’d like a 320 of some sort to mirror the primary carry gun, right now my full size is a Glock 45 and I think that’s how it’s going to stay.
Truth be told I still wonder if I made a mistake going with the 365 over a 43X, even though the slim line glocks are hell on my left wrist.
So short answer? I don’t really feel good about Sig, but they have at least one product that is good enough for me to hold my nose and come crawling back for more like a trailer park domestic abuse case.
Personally, I think Sig and Glock are nowhere near alike, because Glock is simply trying to make newer better Glock handguns at any given time, making measured small changes that are clear and keeping things simple. We all know what the different generations changed and we know about the small updates within a given gen, such as the G4 updates. I would be inclined to trust pretty much any Glock handgun that passes a cursory takedown and inspection. That's a hell of a thing, really.Originally Posted by RevolverRob
I feel like Sig is acting more like a consumer electronics producer and not a firearms company. They're overly focused on features and margins and getting something half-baked out the door as fast as they can with basically no vetting. As others have mentioned, Sig changes countless things on the fly and there's no telling what the inside of your P320 or P365 will look like unless you know the SN ranges and are a certified armorer capable of taking it down to that level to inspect it.
Then there's the game of vetting it but still hoping it doesn't fuck up when you need a weapon. That's not a game I care to play, and the fact that mil contract SKU's and LE agency issued SKU's are such different guns tells me that Sig values their profit margins over the idea of delivering the same vetted product to everyone that wants to buy a Sig. I will someday buy an M17 or M18 with a manual safety simply to own an example of what I may be issued in the future. Absent that motivation I can't imagine buying one.
HK, meanwhile, is basically doing the exact opposite and making the same consistent vetted design for years with minimal if any changes. We suck, and they hate us, but their guns are overwhelmingly consistent and reliable with few exceptions.
Sig is basically playing the same game Glock has for years.
Pistols going full auto, no recall just a product upgrade. Problems with the G19 at the NYPD swept under the rug. Gen 4 problems with WMLs. I honestly feel at this point Glock is a more vetted platform no doubt.
I own and like both, and agree Sig needs to quit using the consumer to beta test the 320. However I feel that Glock has already done this for the last 30+ years.
"I'd say buy a M17 or M18, just because it seems the thumb safety equipped guns are better (no 'discharge' issues)"
Is that really the case? The other thread left me believing that they were not immune.
As for the chintzy comment, after watching a video of a deep dive on the FCU, WOW sure does seem like a lot of cracker jack box level parts shoved in there!
My own observations on my M18, man the mag fit is pretty poor. I could see there being an issue with the ejector. My mag swims around and even when inserted gently you can observe the mag its self kick off of the ejector.
I don't think Glock is a better company then SIG but I know their product is a more reliable weapon.
Glocks were around for over 10 years before they failed DEA drop testing resulting in the original "safety upgrade" program. SIG just followed Glocls playbook on that one.
Per the SIG armoers manual the manual thumb safety does not block the striker, just the trigger bar.
So no tne manual safety models are not immune e to 320 drop safety issues.
Living in NH i know a lot of people who do/ have worked at sig (including a few who were in some pretty important positions). The more people I know and more stories I hear the less I am willing to purchase sig firearms. This might be a product of just being close and hearing the dirty secrets that exist at sig that also exist in every gun company. Although I dont hear the same stories comming out of ruger or HK. I will say my wife has a 365 and it is kind of awesome.
Come, mother, come! For terror is thy name, death is in thy breath, and every shaking step destroys a world for e'er. Thou 'time', the all-destroyer! Come, O mother, come!
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