Current carry gun is a Sig P365 here...and that's with a G43x in the wings.
Current carry gun is a Sig P365 here...and that's with a G43x in the wings.
I've owned, conservatively, a 10-15 Sigs over the last 30 years. In the same period of time, I've owned at least 50 Glocks, in every model and caliber they make. I am a Sig-certified armorer on the "Classic" pistols, and have been through the Glock armorer certification at least six times. I maintain, on an organizational level, probably 2:1 Sigs to Glocks (we're still issuing P229R DAKs). If I NEVER have to do a detail strip on a Sig pistol again, it'll be too soon. When I retire, I'm sending all my tools back to the HQs, and I'm NEVER getting into the guts of a Sig again.
I've told this story before, but I'll tell it again. I was on an overseas trip, and was fiddling around with an aftermarket Glock slide release, and, sure as sugar, I ganked up the little spring so it wasn't working properly. I was in a "lull" in the US Embassy in Warsaw, Poland (Boss was upstairs eating lunch with the Ambassador and some local VIPs), so I went down to the lunch counter and borrowed a cheap fork. I bent one tine over to 90 degrees, and used that to detail strip the frame of my G19. 10 seconds later, I had the stock part back in, gun reassembled and functional. And, OBTW, I did this all below the level of a "lunch counter" table top, in my lap, pretty much by feel, without anyone around me being any wiser. Had I needed to do the same level of work on a P229, I would have deadlined it until after the trip and put a backup pistol into service.
Anyway, back to being "good" with Sig now. I have two Sigs left in my inventory - a 1991 vintage P228, and a spankin' new P365XL. The P228 is a safe queen, I keep it out of nostalgia for my old issued M11. The XL is giving me a good chance to get accustomed to RDS, and, through the first couple hundred rounds, has been pretty good. I have been obsessively wiping down the mag release, mags, and front NS with Brownell's brand rust inhibitor, waiting for some BOESHIELD to come in for a more permanent fix. If the G43X/48 "worked" for me, I never would have looked at the XL - there are almost more parts in the XL's slide than there are in a G43 - not a great situation when every part comes from suppliers of questionable provenance and might be a failure point. But, for now, so far so good, so I'm cautiously optimistic. Back in '08, I bought a P229R DAK to mirror my issued pistol through the Sig individual officer program (IOP), and the one I got was a fail from the factory - frame mis-machined so that grips couldn't be installed without a huge gap. It was replaced with a fresh pistol that had a trigger pull that felt about 15# through wet sand. It went back for a "hand select" pistol by the QC manager - it arrived with a dead front NS. On top of that, I've seen dozens and dozens of issued P229s and P239s with issues that defy my ability (and the ability of other armorers) to analyze, that had to be sent back to Sig for replacement. My feeling is that Sig has adopted a "QC" regimen wherein it's easier/cheaper for them to replace lemons than fix them... And, having seen what's going on with P320s, if I won one for free, I'd sell it, preferably to someone I didn't like. Like Osama bin Laden's ghost.
On the rust issue, when I started with my agency, we were "Sig 9mm only", so my duty pistol was a P226, and my off duty was a P239. Both would rust if you looked at them wrong, and needed to be wiped down and oiled every day. One time I was on an extended operation wherein "sleep" was 30-minute naps whenever/where ever we could catch them for three days. At the end of that time, my P226 looked like it had been recovered from a flooded house post-Katrina. Took hours of work to get the rust off, and the rust had actually eaten through the Nitron and pitted the stainless underneath...
Man, y’all are not exactly creating confidence for me in my Sigs - the guns or the company. So far I’ve had pretty good luck with the ones I’ve owned - mostly classic metal p-series pistols, and a p365. But I don’t run them hard like many of you do, and I don’t have nearly the depth and breadth of experience that many of you do.
Which is one reason I love this forum. When I truly want to learn something, this is the place I always come.
I had my first P320 malfunction last weekend as the slide didn't go forward into battery properly. Rough round count is around 7450 rounds. I hadn't replaced my 12# recoil spring ever, or cleaned or lubed my gun in about 1.5k rounds. I was also shooting my scuzzy reloads and the powder charge may have been slightly off as my Dillon powder funnel tends to occasionally stick and pop resulting in some powder jumping out of the case.
I don't have the capacity to stay on top of which new bugaboos people come up with regarding the P320 but so far it seems about as functional as a Glock to me.
Last edited by Eyesquared; 09-08-2020 at 05:07 PM.
The P239 is the gun I keep coming back to. It's sized right for carry (in terms of slimness, height and overall footprint) and it shoots very well for me. My examples (3 of them) have been reliable.
Granted, I'm not an LEO, so maybe I don't see the "whole enchilada" when it comes to reliability. Nevertheless, I've put several thousands of rounds through my P239s and other DA/SA Sigs... they work. I had one FTE with my current 9mm P239, which I'm 99% sure was an under-loaded round. Anemic pop. Brass sitting horizontally in the extractor claw. I also noticed that P245s are prone to inertial feeds without the dimpled P220 compact mags. Other than that... my Sigs have been great.
The one caveat is, I haven't had a ton of experience with newer P-2XX Sigs. Mine have all been LE trades, from the 80s, 90s and early/mid 2000s. That said, I just bought a 2011 P229 (.357) LE trade. Definitely the newest Sig I've had. I was surprised to see it had a MIM locking insert; I had also heard LE customers got the "good" parts, one of which was the steel locking insert. So... we'll see. I haven't shot it yet.
Lately, I've been carrying and shooting a .357 Sig P239. I got it because it was cheap--then the ammo shortage happened. Now 9mm is more expensive than .357 Sig. The gun was originally DAK, but since I'm not shooting much 9mm these days I went ahead and swapped the fire-control components with my 9mm P239 (DA/SA). DAK was okay; but I prefer DA/SA.
I can't say doing the swap was easy, not having done it before... but... I have no formal training and no specialized tools and all it took was a little Youtube and forum research. I have no doubt a Glock is easier. But as well as this gun shoots now, I'll deal with sears, fiddly safety levers and locking-inserts. The trigger is great. The feel is great. Doesn't arbitrarily shoot left (or right). Maybe people experience similar with their G19s? Maybe I just haven't shot Glocks enough? I dunno. But at the end of the day, my P239s put bullets where I want them.
Anyway, the point I'm rambling to...
I still love P-series Sigs. Especially the P239. I plan to add a few more examples to my lineup and increase my mag stockpile. I wish they still made them.
Last edited by MattyD380; 09-08-2020 at 05:52 PM.
So, after a few phone calls, I Find I am NOT the first gun this has happened to in the agency. But I am the first one to do it like I did it. Apparently, we issue the full size, tricked out 320 to our SRT teams. Those guns have mag funnels and 21 rounds mags standard. And the funnel combined with the 21 round mags can flex enough to let the mag get over inserted. I could not get a full answer, but either three other guns have had this issue, or I am the third. Considering the thousands we have in service, the odds are pretty low.
But our issued guns are not allowed to swap frame sizes. I bought A personal purchase duty gun, so I was able to use a compact frame instead of the compact carry frame. The vast majority of agents are not allowed to swap frames, so this won’t be an issue.
Pic of issued SRT gun for reference.
“A gun is a tool, Marian; no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.” - Shane
Originally Posted by Gadfly
Right. The combination of the 21-round mag and full size frames helps prevent the issue. But in competition, a number of people have had a problem similar to yours with the X-Five, which is functionally identical to the pistol in your photo. It is rare because slide lock reloads in competition are relatively rare.
The solution to your issue is an appropriate spacer on the mag to prevent the kind of overinsertion you encountered.
Personally, as mentioned, I think this is a fatal flaw in a fighting pistol. It’s a good platform, but this is a big potential issue.
I posted my last post in the wrong thread... this was meant for my “broken ejector“ thread. But it fits here, even though the post is a little out of context.
Going to copy it over to the other thread.
“A gun is a tool, Marian; no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.” - Shane
The base pad of the factory 21 round mag (visible in gadfly's photo) extends upward and is supposed to act as a spacer like the metal spacer on the old P226 20 round mags. It's supposed to address that issue as you mentioned, but in practice it does not when used with the factory X5 magwell.
I agree. That is why I said it “helps prevent” the issue, it does not eliminate the potential. Thanks for the clarification.
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