Are we good with Sig now?

[call_me_ski]

I’ll get the chance to run a 516 with an OSS Helix 556k in late October. I will report my findings.

[JRB]

I maintain a cold cynicism when it comes to any modern manufacturer. These guys ain't Holland & Holland....

Sage advice for anyone.

Is HK still the only company without egg on their face?

Quite likely that I'm just ignorant of it, but I can't recall of any NYPD G19/Sig 320-esque sorts of recalls on a Beretta product. A quick Google-fu doesn't turn anything up for me.

I really, really, really want to get a modern production P210- but am also pretty convinced I'll probably get a lot of teh suck if I did.

Finding someone with an old school Swiss made P210, and putting one magazine through that pistol will cure you of any 'new' P210 desire. The new P210 is better than I expected it to be, but the old school Swiss P210 is truly a work of art.

....That said, I definitely shoot the Beretta 92 series pistol better than the P series.

Same. I found that strange at first, because I'd heard so many people parroting the Beretta badmouthing, but so many universally adored the old school Sigs.
Dating myself a bit, but I liked the 92 a lot after shooting it so well, but what sealed the deal was Beretta pre-ban 'hi cap' 15 round mags were cheaper at the time than any other factory standard cap mag for a duty-issued 9mm handgun.

[Texaspoff]

Nope, and I am a Sig P320 LE armorer and I own a few 320's as well as several of our officers carrying them. I still carry a Glock, period.



TXPO

[lwt16]

For me, it all boils down to quality control. Here's my experience:

Certified armorer on the P320 platform. Responsible for about 40 pistols (and now that number has grown)

Of those 40 initial copies, most of which were purchased in 2017, here are the facts:

-missing striker return spring
- out of spec mag catch
- magazine catch rust (user profusely sweaty dude)
- magazine catch rusted shut (not a sweaty dude but a leather holster sort of dude)
- faulty magazines
-out of spec magazine springs
-bad extractor (double feed/fail to extract)
-bad extractor (double feed/fail to extract)
-take down safety lever out of spec and required a trigger pull to field strip (part made in India) part number 1300734-R
-recoil spring assembly failure
-out of battery detonation (extractor launched into orbit/grip module shattered/slight injury to the shooter's support hand (he's a lefty) X Carry model
-discharge while holstered (see thread JonInWa) started . Pistol had out of spec safety lever spring as well as out of spec sear/sear springs P320 Carry model

Each of the above are separate pistols. If you take out the rusted mag catches, that's ten or so pistols with issues direct from the factory. Some minor in nature and after my armorer class, I ordered parts from Top Gun supply.....because they were cheaper than Sig even with my "armorer's discount". Plus, TopGun had the parts in stock, responded to my emails promptly, and were much easier to work with than the Sig pro shop.

My recent email exchange with Sig corporate was less than satisfactory except for a LE rep that seemed like he had his affairs in order and wanted to help. I am pretty easy going and understanding.....to a point....and once that point is reached......I give up on poor performance and handle things on my own.

I still have two P320s in the safe. Both have Wilson Combat grip modules (which changes the gun in the best sort of ways for me), both have Apex trigger kits, and one has an extra power trigger return spring. Both have aftermarket sights and both run like champs. No issues with either.

That ejector being built into the FCU housing? That aggravates me......particularly when Sig is charging some folks 200 bucks to fix that. That aspect of the platform has worried several in my social circle....and has caused some to dump their copies and go with other guns (Glock/HK).

I will say that the copies that I have inspected built in late 19 and 2020 all seem to be good to go out of the box. I have only seen about five to seven "newer" P320s and they "seem" to be better assembled than the batch we got in 2017.

The last one I bought was 400 plus tax. For four bills, I'm pretty happy with what the pistol was and is. Adding the WC grip module and sights we are still hovering just under six hundred all in. If the gun keeps running, it will be good to go.

I can shoot just about anything so I'm not really a "brand" guy. Reliability and accuracy is all I care about. I have ran my P320 (circa 2017) hard and dabbled in USPSA with it a time or two.....winning informal matches with it.....and I can print a respectable 25 yard group with it.

For now, it's a range toy....as my issued G45 is filling the bill for me on duty and off duty. I'm not a huge fan of the gen 5 Glock trigger return spring but that part is cheap and easy to replace. Firing up the shot timer showed me that the G45 was my "fastest" gun as my times and performance reflected that.

Having a certified armorer on the P320 in your social circle would be a huge help if you do buy one. Take it to him/her and let them go over it. Then buy a spare extractor or two, a RSA, and ammo if you can find it. Take it and run it hard and see what's what.

Regards.

[Hieronymous]

Talk to p-f member Micheal Zeleney first. There are some issues which I don't know if they've been resolved. He's a resident (and world-wide) P210 subject matter expert.

Best, Jon

I remember the thread where he shared pictures of his collection. His knowledge and collection were impressive.

[ratter75]

Nope.

[HCM]

For me, it all boils down to quality control. Here's my experience:

Certified armorer on the P320 platform. Responsible for about 40 pistols (and now that number has grown)

Of those 40 initial copies, most of which were purchased in 2017, here are the facts:

-missing striker return spring
- out of spec mag catch
- magazine catch rust (user profusely sweaty dude)
- magazine catch rusted shut (not a sweaty dude but a leather holster sort of dude)
- faulty magazines
-out of spec magazine springs
-bad extractor (double feed/fail to extract)
-bad extractor (double feed/fail to extract)
-take down safety lever out of spec and required a trigger pull to field strip (part made in India) part number 1300734-R
-recoil spring assembly failure
-out of battery detonation (extractor launched into orbit/grip module shattered/slight injury to the shooter's support hand (he's a lefty) X Carry model
-discharge while holstered (see thread JonInWa) started . Pistol had out of spec safety lever spring as well as out of spec sear/sear springs P320 Carry model

Each of the above are separate pistols. If you take out the rusted mag catches, that's ten or so pistols with issues direct from the factory. Some minor in nature and after my armorer class, I ordered parts from Top Gun supply.....because they were cheaper than Sig even with my "armorer's discount". Plus, TopGun had the parts in stock, responded to my emails promptly, and were much easier to work with than the Sig pro shop.

My recent email exchange with Sig corporate was less than satisfactory except for a LE rep that seemed like he had his affairs in order and wanted to help. I am pretty easy going and understanding.....to a point....and once that point is reached......I give up on poor performance and handle things on my own.

I still have two P320s in the safe. Both have Wilson Combat grip modules (which changes the gun in the best sort of ways for me), both have Apex trigger kits, and one has an extra power trigger return spring. Both have aftermarket sights and both run like champs. No issues with either.

That ejector being built into the FCU housing? That aggravates me......particularly when Sig is charging some folks 200 bucks to fix that. That aspect of the platform has worried several in my social circle....and has caused some to dump their copies and go with other guns (Glock/HK).

I will say that the copies that I have inspected built in late 19 and 2020 all seem to be good to go out of the box. I have only seen about five to seven "newer" P320s and they "seem" to be better assembled than the batch we got in 2017.

The last one I bought was 400 plus tax. For four bills, I'm pretty happy with what the pistol was and is. Adding the WC grip module and sights we are still hovering just under six hundred all in. If the gun keeps running, it will be good to go.

I can shoot just about anything so I'm not really a "brand" guy. Reliability and accuracy is all I care about. I have ran my P320 (circa 2017) hard and dabbled in USPSA with it a time or two.....winning informal matches with it.....and I can print a respectable 25 yard group with it.

For now, it's a range toy....as my issued G45 is filling the bill for me on duty and off duty. I'm not a huge fan of the gen 5 Glock trigger return spring but that part is cheap and easy to replace. Firing up the shot timer showed me that the G45 was my "fastest" gun as my times and performance reflected that.

Having a certified armorer on the P320 in your social circle would be a huge help if you do buy one. Take it to him/her and let them go over it. Then buy a spare extractor or two, a RSA, and ammo if you can find it. Take it and run it hard and see what's what.

Regards.

Could you copy this and re-post it in the JoninWA lawsuit thread ? I think this summary would be useful there.

[Jared]

I want to be. Then I see threads like this with the horror stories and I just shake my head.

Here’s the thing, I genuinely like the way SIG is pushing the envelope and trying to innovate. I think their engineers are probably a solid group. I think their QC absolutely sucks. I think their mag prices are ridiculous. And every time I turn around there’s some change to this or that and backwards compatibility is suboptimal or not possible. That makes me reluctant to adopt.

I still haven’t fully forgiven Cohen for his actions during dropgate either.

I want to be good with SIG, but I just can’t get.

[TheNewbie]

I saw a P225A1 the other day that looked sharp. The P210 carry looks pretty awesome as well.

If I could only trust Sig.

[CWM11B]

I've learned "never say never" the hard way many times over the course of my life. I was a dedicated Sig user for several years. It will take a LOT to get me to even consider a Sig product in the foreseeable future, if ever.