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Thread: Has 2020's Riots Changed Your Mind On Shotguns? Still Viable?

  1. #11
    Site Supporter JodyH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5pins View Post
    How many rounds did Kyle fire that night? I think it was more than a tubes worth of 870. I can load my Virsa Max to 10 rounds, it's long and heavy. Or I can have a pistol AR with 30 or more, it's light and short.
    Number of rounds fired isn't a great metric.
    Shot effectiveness per round has to factor in as well.

    I've shot a lot of tough ass animals (coyotes and feral hogs mainly) with both AR's and shotguns inside 50Y.
    They almost always run off from a solid AR hit to the chest and require a followup to dispatch them humanely, they almost always flop and die on the spot from #00 to the chest.
    "For a moment he felt good about this. A moment or two later he felt bad about feeling good about it. Then he felt good about feeling bad about feeling good about it and, satisfied, drove on into the night."
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  2. #12
    Site Supporter hufnagel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JodyH View Post
    I've done away with slugs completely.
    I now have Flite-Control #00 and Winchester Military #00.
    The Flite-Control is what it's loaded with and is my "precision" round (6" group at 25Y) for taking out individual threats.
    The Military buckshot is for getting pellets into as many zombies as I can per shot (18" pattern at 25Y) if I get trapped by a mob.
    Yea. Like I said I stuck in there what I had on hand like 6 years ago, and haven't honestly given it a moment's thought since.
    Sounds like I should start sniffing out some WM truffles at some point; I like the idea of the bigger pattern, as I consider the shotgun to be the large mob "go away now!" convinceer, better than a rifle.
    Although, since the shockwave is actually in front of the 500, and it's got a smaller barrel, maybe FC is the better choice since it's going to spread more anyways out of that short barrel?
    Think I need to buy some boxes, take a trip to the range that allows shotgun patterning, and do exactly that.
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  3. #13
    Site Supporter LOKNLOD's Avatar
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    None of this changes the viability, strengths, or weaknesses of the shotgun.

    What has happened, is the threat matrix has shifted, or at least our perception of it, and we’re talking and thinking about a threat that has jumped up the risk ranking. Somebody’s rotated the rubix cube and now we’re looking at it from a different angle.
    --Josh
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  4. #14
    Site Supporter JodyH's Avatar
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    They haven't been called "riot guns" for the past 100+ years for no reason.
    "For a moment he felt good about this. A moment or two later he felt bad about feeling good about it. Then he felt good about feeling bad about feeling good about it and, satisfied, drove on into the night."
    -- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy --

  5. #15
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    Racking a pump gun on the ground with someone beating on you would not be fun.

    If you want to talk PR, a giant hamburger wound on someone's chest would look great for your cause. Sarcasm.

    Shotgun is also easier to make hits on small fast moving targets in the dark obscured by smoke.
    Like heads.
    I think that is trivial given the spread of things like Flite Control buck or a slug.

    Nothing new in the OP, hey, Kyle should have just racked the gun and the giant mob would have fled. Sarcasm, yet again.

    Back to the AR, thinking you are going to stand there and shoot 30 people down with a 30 round mag - another fantasy. Some of them did have guns, as we saw. One of these days, the AR militia is going to be engaged, perhaps in a surprise while they are standing around.

  6. #16
    Abducted by Aliens Borderland's Avatar
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    In Europe during WW2 there was a lot of urban (city street) fighting. I would have to say that would be something similar to what we've seen and about to see in our large cities.

    The Russians liked the PPSh-41, a sub machine gun.

    Germans liked the MP-40, another sub machine gun.

    The US infantry soldier liked the M-1 carbine. There is some disagreement about that, but plenty of those can be seen in photographs of US soldiers in combat. 7 million were produced in 4 years.

    Because AR's are plentiful, we're going see a lot of them in the coming insurgency on both sides. A shotgun might be fine for HD but doesn't make a lot of sense to me in the streets. It's just a long gun with limited capacity and range. Probably why carbines have replaced them in large city police agencies.
    In the P-F basket of deplorables.

  7. #17
    Site Supporter farscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borderland View Post
    In Europe during WW2 there was a lot of urban (city street) fighting. I would have to say that would be something similar to what we've seen and about to see in our large cities.

    The Russians liked the PPSh-41, a sub machine gun.

    Germans liked the MP-40, another sub machine gun.

    The US infantry soldier liked the M-1 carbine. There is some disagreement about that, but plenty of those can be seen in photographs of US soldiers in combat. 7 million were produced in 4 years.

    Because AR's are plentiful, we're going see a lot of them in the coming insurgency on both sides. A shotgun might be fine for HD but doesn't make a lot of sense to me in the streets. It's just a long gun with limited capacity and range. Probably why carbines have replaced them in large city police agencies.
    Not to say any of that is wrong, but the Benelli M4 has been bought by a lot of militaries. Many someones still see a new for the shotgun in combat. Whether they are right is another question.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JodyH View Post
    They haven't been called "riot guns" for the past 100+ years for no reason.
    Yeah but not the reasons you reference.

    The original “less lethal” was shotguns loaded with rock salt or birdshot skipped off of pavement/cobblestones etc.

    And prior to repeating rifles the double barrel shotguns gave you 2 shots vs one in a rifle.

    There was a window from the 1890s until the rise of the SMG in the 1920s where pump and semi auto shotguns had a distinct advantage in close range gunfights but that gap is long closed.

  9. #19
    Abducted by Aliens Borderland's Avatar
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    The effect of 00 buckshot at 100 yards. Draw your own conclusions.

    https://youtu.be/sxymVClJVhU

    I just put a red dot on my carbine which is what the dude in the video had on his shotgun I think, not sure. I'll see if I can do better.
    In the P-F basket of deplorables.

  10. #20
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    If the riots have convinced any of you that your 1301T is no longer a viable option, please sell it to me.

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