Has 2020's Riots Changed Your Mind On Shotguns? Still Viable?

[Gadfly]

Carbine or Shotgun?

Why not both?

#SonnyKnows

(I kid, I kid... It Would be a little hard to run away from the mob toting that front heavy rig.)

[kitchen's mill]

It's an old cliche but the picture fits, it's more the Indian than the arrow.

If you know how to fight, the shotgun works fine.

Moving targets, low light I picked a shotgun many times.

[TR675]

Pistol for EDC.

Shotgun for hunkering down in the closet during the home invasion you won’t experience because you don’t sling dope for a living.

Rifle for the civil unrest you won’t be attending because you’re not a brain dead 17-year old.

Simple.


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[5pins]

I fired one round outdoors from my 11.5in Colt without earpro as a 'what if' experiment. It cured me of any notion of using it without earpro if there's any way I could help it. Once funds permit, I'm getting a YHM Turbo or Turbo K for it.

If a truly effective muzzle device exists that 'forwards' the muzzle blast better than the A2 flash hider, that would be almost mandatory for defensive use IMHO. I'd also keep that an 'outside only' sort of solution if at all possible.

But there's definitely some psych value to the muzzle blast. A fire team of guys with M4's on semi that start dumping suppressing fire sounds like hell unleashed without earpro, especially to folks without 'trained' ears. Throw in a SAW gunner that has the shorter barrels for his SAW and it's just that much more of the same. That's one of the few non-cost arguments against issuing suppressors DoD wide.

The "Flaming Pig" KX3 Flash Suppressor.

https://noveske.com/products/kx3-flash-suppressor

[Casual Friday]

I fired one round outdoors from my 11.5in Colt without earpro as a 'what if' experiment. It cured me of any notion of using it without earpro if there's any way I could help it. Once funds permit, I'm getting a YHM Turbo or Turbo K for it.

If a truly effective muzzle device exists that 'forwards' the muzzle blast better than the A2 flash hider, that would be almost mandatory for defensive use IMHO. I'd also keep that an 'outside only' sort of solution if at all possible.

But there's definitely some psych value to the muzzle blast. A fire team of guys with M4's on semi that start dumping suppressing fire sounds like hell unleashed without earpro, especially to folks without 'trained' ears. Throw in a SAW gunner that has the shorter barrels for his SAW and it's just that much more of the same. That's one of the few non-cost arguments against issuing suppressors DoD wide.

The BRT Covert Comp is basically the same dimensions as an A2 birdcage and it does an extremely good job at pushing the concussive blast forward. It's still gonna suck though indoors without ear pro.

In high school my buddy's family had a hobby farm before hobby farming was cool. They had chickens, pigs, goats, alpacas, and some cattle. Over the course of about 4 months, a coyote absolutely wreaked havoc on their animals. His Dad promised us each $100 if we killed that coyote, big money for 90's kids. One day we were just hanging out after school and we saw the coyote out in the field. He grabbed his Dad's SKS that sat in the corner of the kitchen and when he chambered a round, it slam fired and sent a 7.62x39 round through the ceiling. I didn't really hear the shot, just all of a sudden I didn't hear anything, at all. After a bit, then the ringing and pain set in. Took a long time but my hearing went back to normal according to the hearing tests. So a person might regain their hearing or most of it with one or two shots but I think if you had to send many more than that you'd be saying "huh?" for the rest of your life. Oh, we did end up killing that coyote some time later but we didn't get the $100 though, his Dad kept that to offset the cost of drywall and roof repairs. His brother took the cape to Taxidermy school, you have to supply your own animals, and made the poorest quality full coyote mount you'd ever laid eyes on, but it was his first.

Hearing is a funny thing. My Dad used a Garand in Korea, never wore any ear plugs, and he cut timber for 40 years and never wore them for that either. His hearing didn't get bad until sometime around age 80, then it went really bad.

[HCM]

I used one in Fallujah

But as part of a team. Most CONUS situations are/will be solo.

Not invalid, but different.

[HCM]

Ed Mireles comments on the mental effect of 556 blast at close range speak for themselves.

The topic always brings this to mind:

The Gun Without A Bang by Robert Sheckley

https://www.sffaudio.com/mindwebs-th...omment-page-1/

[03RN]

But as part of a team. Most CONUS situations are/will be solo.

Not invalid, but different.

I was responding to a statement saying some militaries still see a need for them.

I wasn't trying to compare Fallujah to Kenosha with that comment.

[RevolverRob]

This ultimately boils down to a few things we've hashed out more than once here on P-F, regarding the shotgun.

While 12-gauge buckshot and 12-gauge slugs have excellent terminal effectiveness - the delivery systems of that shot and those slugs - leaves something to be desired in terms of manipulations required, reloading, and capacity.

In this regard, the 12-gauge is viewed not as a general purpose weapon, but as a special purpose weapon. How broadly or narrowly one views "special purpose" is probably directly proportional to their general level of comfort handling and using said weapon (since it requires more manipulations, more reloading, and has lower capacity). If you run a 12-gauge shotgun a lot, you're probably more comfortable with its deployment and use in a broader range of scenarios.

No one here can completely account for all given scenarios for all locations at all times. So, ultimately, it is up to each individual person to decide.

___

I'll return to the point I made earlier, but make in a more...facetious fashion -

The first rule of (gun)fight club is to have a gun.

Because MY limitations are of a legal kind and not of an operator skill level kind - my choice(s) are made for me.

On a personal level - I would never feel 'under'-armed with a 12-gauge shotgun and a bunch of buckshot. I'm not going to worry about psychological stops, I'm going for physiological ones and 12-gauge buck does a really good job of that when at 'riot distance'. The average looter/rioter does not have Sturmtruppen-like training or resolve; maybe they'll continue to come at you, maybe not. You honestly can't count on them stopping, after you've ripped off 28 rounds of 5.56, either. Trying to game that shit out will leave you locked at home for the rest of your life.

I think a lot of folks are over-thinking stuff - when they should probably go get their weapon(s) of choice out and run some dryfire and manipulation drills, then go for a jog or a bike ride. And forget about this shit, you're more likely to die of covid-19 than be stuck in a riot where you're forced to engage with gunfire.

[Joe Mac]

I think underestimating your enemy is dangerous

Just a realistic assessment...doesn't mean you're not prepared if they up their game.