Best Practices for storing and getting Long Guns into Action - Drop Safety

[WobblyPossum]

I also keep defensive long guns cruiser ready (action closed, empty chamber, loaded magazine, safety on). It doesn’t take much practice to be able to reliable pick up the gun and work the action. My primary long guns are AR-15 style guns, both at work and for personal use, so the safeties are very intuitive and easy to operate. They aren’t drop safe and I won’t chamber a round unless it’s time for the gun to be in my hands because I might have to use it imminently.

After finding out about the Brownells Safe Port on this forum, I picked one up and use it in my work rifle. I like that it’s bright orange and automatically ejects from the gun when you work the charging handle. Looking at the gun with the Safe Port in the action immediately let’s me know that the chamber is free of ammunition. Once the magazine is removed it is easy to see the gun is unloaded. I’ll soon be picking up a second one for my home defense AR so I can have one in both ARs that might be used in an anti-personnel role.

@TGS had a different take on things based on his job’s operational requirements and I hope he chimes in here too.

ETA: I can’t speak to hunting as I’ve never hunted. Assuming one was hunting with a bolt gun, the act of chambering a round should be quiet enough not to alert the prey animal.

[Odin Bravo One]

In the gigantic Beretta 1301 thread - the topic of drop safety in long-guns came up - https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....actical/page99 - This is about the fourteenth time I've seen this particular discussion pop-up in the various long-gun fora and discussions. As a result, I figured it would be good to just hit the go button on creating a 'best practices' thread and asking @TCinVA @Giving Back and anyone else to give us their thoughts on how they store long arms.

I don’t know that I have anything useful to add to what TC has already mentioned.

[olstyn]

The vast majority of long-guns are NOT drop-safe.

Now that the experts have weighed in with good advice, I have a somewhat tangential question: Why is this the case? Pistols, by and large, are designed to be drop safe - why is the same not true of long guns? It can't be a technical limitation, as long guns are bigger, so it's not as though there's a lack of room for mechanisms which would make them drop safe. That leads rather inescapably to the idea that the designers of long guns either didn't bother to think about drop safety or did think about it and decided that it was unimportant.

[TGS]

@TGS had a different take on things based on his job’s operational requirements and I hope he chimes in here too.

I think it comes down to this:

They aren’t drop safe and I won’t chamber a round unless it’s time for the gun to be in my hands because I might have to use it imminently.

Our proscribed readiness when working is no different than physically carrying a rifle on a manhunt, serving a warrant, etc....thus, just as anyone would carry a loaded AR due to the imminence of their work, we store them loaded in bags (not rifle racks) when not in our hands, and in the interest of not introducing unnecessary administrative handling we keep them that way until they're pulled from service.

Regardless of all the handwringing on the internet about theoretical dangers and examples of rifles discharging upon hitting the ground after a 40ft fall from a guard tower, the combination of loaded Mk18s stored in padded bags simply doesn't result in boom.

Now that the experts have weighed in with good advice, I have a somewhat tangential question: Why is this the case? Pistols, by and large, are designed to be drop safe - why is the same not true of long guns? It can't be a technical limitation, as long guns are bigger, so it's not as though there's a lack of room for mechanisms which would make them drop safe. That leads rather inescapably to the idea that the designers of long guns either didn't bother to think about drop safety or did think about it and decided that it was unimportant.

Note that the Colt SMG has a lighter firing pin and spring-loaded firing pin "safety" to prevent unintentional discharges due to the softer pistol primers and increased inertia carried by the much heavier bolt (bolt+buffer). It's simply not a realistic issue for the vast majority of uses for an AR15, or they would have added it like HK did when they decided to change the bolt/buffer system which increased the propensity for unintentional discharges. A spring loaded firing pin safety also has its own issues.....like when the spring breaks and jams the firing pin in a forward position, or collects gunk and jams the firing pin in a forward position much easier than a floating pin would. These were both issues with the Colt SMG...infrequent, but still on a list of things that did happen versus theoretical things that don't happen.

Sometimes simpler is better, especially when the issue isn't as big a one that the internet makes it out to be.

[RevolverRob]

Now that the experts have weighed in with good advice, I have a somewhat tangential question: Why is this the case? Pistols, by and large, are designed to be drop safe - why is the same not true of long guns? It can't be a technical limitation, as long guns are bigger, so it's not as though there's a lack of room for mechanisms which would make them drop safe. That leads rather inescapably to the idea that the designers of long guns either didn't bother to think about drop safety or did think about it and decided that it was unimportant.

I suspect historical inertia has more to do with it than anything else. But given that long-guns are not routinely loaded on military installations, in police stations, or for most inside vehicles - it just seems like there hasn't been a lot of requests.

However, more and more rifles, at least, are coming with firing pin blocks that, theoretically, make them more drop safe. The HK556/762 (416/417) have firing pin blocks and the current generation of the Sig MCX (including the Rattler) have them. I'm not 100%, but I think the Sig MPX has a firing pin block, too. In another dozen years we may have several more. I would imagine the Ruger PCC and Beretta CX4 have then for similar reasons to what @TGS noted for the Colt SMG.

[DDTSGM]

I've been using one of those chamber "flags" that has the head of a case cast into it for years. Ejects when I pull the bolt back. I prefer knowing the chamber situation rather than assuming.

can't recall the make or model.

There are a couple, the most recent iteration is the Hornady Rapid Rack - https://www.hornady.com/shop/accesso...ady-rapid-rack

I would guess yor are probably talking about the Saf-T Eject rounds which have been around longer - https://www.safrgun.com/rifle

I have a couple of each - the saf-t eject might be a tad bit better because you can drill a small hole in the hand and attach a device such as this to it:

https://www.etsy.com/listing/7376586...SABEgJuMPD_BwE

I advocated for agency use of these in patrol rifles - a quick, visible, check of weapon status - including 'Bill, you need to chamber a round' assuming you wanted 'Bill' loaded hot.

[GJM]

The reason to keep the chamber empty is not because of drop safety, it is because the long gun doesn’t come with a holster. How many of the instructors here allow students to leave the line to get more ammo, hydrate or go to lunch or the bathroom with a chamber loaded long gun? “Leaving the line” is exactly the scenario of walking over hill and dale with a long gun. I get why Sean M keeps a loaded AR in hostile territory, but even in big bear territory, it is not war, and we are managing competing safety interests. As my PH in Botswana once told me, while I am worried about being chewed on by a lion, I am even more worried about being hit by the client’s .375 H&H.

[HCM]

Does this still apply with the "slight upgrade" chrome silicon springs that are supposed to last longer than stainless and/or e.g. Sprinco springs?

(Just to note, I find the rest of your reasoning compelling and see no real reason this matters "operationally," it's more "larperational" curiosity.)

That’s not how springs work. They wear via cycling not remaining in compression.

Regardless I agree with John Hearne that AR bolts will drop at the slightest opportunity and keeping the bolt locked back with a full mag in place is problematic. Traditional condition 3, bolt forward on an empty chamber, full mag in place is the way to go. Extended charging handles are an option if charging is an issue.

[OlongJohnson]

That’s not how springs work. They wear via cycling not remaining in compression.

I figured that had been covered in all the "leaving magazines loaded" discussions, but was leaving the door open for any new information John might have in this particular case.

Regardless I agree with John Hearne that AR bolts will drop at the slightest opportunity and keeping the bolt locked back with a full mag in place is problematic. Traditional condition 3, bolt forward on an empty chamber, full mag in place is the way to go. Extended charging handles are an option if charging is an issue.

Me three.

Hey, maybe @RevolverRob can start another thread in which we discuss whether cycling the action on an 870 or dropping the charging handle on an AR results in a sound more intimidating to home invaders?

[WobblyPossum]

Our proscribed readiness when working is no different than physically carrying a rifle on a manhunt, serving a warrant, etc....thus, just as anyone would carry a loaded AR due to the imminence of their work, we store them loaded in bags (not rifle racks) when not in our hands, and in the interest of not introducing unnecessary administrative handling we keep them that way until they're pulled from service.

I hadn’t thought about things from this angle and that your context for a weapon being “in use” might be different from mine. If I’m clearing a house or securing perimeter while someone else is, the rifle is “in use” so it’s loaded. It didn’t click with me that in the context of something like a lower visibility protection detail, the gun being concealed in a bag is also “in use” and needs to be loaded too.