Man shot and killed during pro-Trump demonstrations in Portland OR

[EPF]

I think we'll have to determine who instigated the confrontation before making that assessment. I read in another thread here that it may have been the non-BLM affiliated individual who drew and fired first. However, I don't know if that is the case and have not had an opportunity to conduct any research.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/27/u...ing-video.html


I think when even the NYT admits that he did not shoot first, we can assume it’s true 🙂

[fixer]

I think we'll have to determine who instigated the confrontation before making that assessment. I read in another thread here that it may have been the non-BLM affiliated individual who drew and fired first. However, I don't know if that is the case and have not had an opportunity to conduct any research.

What I've seen indicates something more insidious.

The pro trump black shirt guy was walking. Then it sounds like there is some sort of identification along the lines of "....right here!".
Black shirt raises bear spray.
White shirt guy looks to already have a pistol in a low ready, turns 90 degrees and gets one shot off, then another.

[blues]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/27/u...ing-video.html


I think when even the NYT admits that he did not shoot first, we can assume it’s true 🙂

I think you and I are discussing two separate incidents.

[RJ]

All the more reason to adopt the "gray man" life-style. It appears that anything that "sticks up" is more likely to get "pounded down" these days. At the risk of sounding like a "literalist", perhaps it is time to start wearing clothing of neutral colors (grays, light tans/sand, etc.) so as not to draw the eyes of those looking for such visual cues.

I agree.

From what we wear to what we drive, I've taken several different choices lately. For example, I used to like to wear a tan "shooters" hat with velcro for morale patches and such; I leave that in the closet these days. Same with watch; leave the fancy stuff at home and put on the Timex. I don't wear plaid short sleeves much any more but I don't think I'll be using them in future, either. Absolutely no stickers on the car. No blue line apparel, no flags.

Shame, really.

Strange times we live in.

[paherne]

I think we'll have to determine who instigated the confrontation before making that assessment. I read in another thread here that it may have been the non-BLM affiliated individual who drew and fired first. However, I don't know if that is the case and have not had an opportunity to conduct any research.

Why are you using facts and waiting for the investigation? The folks who will be acting upon this incident will not wait for facts, nor investigations. We are in a post-fact world and slowly descending into Banana Republic territory.

[RJ]

What I've seen indicates something more insidious.

The pro trump black shirt guy was walking. Then it sounds like there is some sort of identification along the lines of "....right here!".
Black shirt raises bear spray.
White shirt guy looks to already have a pistol in a low ready, turns 90 degrees and gets one shot off, then another.

That's interesting, and tallys with my subjective observation the two puffs of smoke appear to be different sizes (noticeably so). One could be bear spray followed by a gunshot with very smokey powder.

But for sure there two gunshots.

Second point about low ready, watching the white shirt guy several times the body language resembles a case where you have a pistol behind your back, then bring it up into a shooting position rapidly. There is no observable motion like you would see from a CCW draw from waistband or appendix.

[GyroF-16]

I see this as a direct act of retaliation for Rittenhouse's shooting of 3 BLM demonstrators in Kenosha.

That was my initial thought as well.

[blues]

Why are you using facts and waiting for the investigation? The folks who will be acting upon this incident will not wait for facts, nor investigations. We are in a post-fact world and slowly descending into Banana Republic territory.

What was I thinking?

(I'm trying to figure out if you and I and others of our ilk will have a hand in trying to right this damned ship, or just try to get away far enough to live out what's left of our lives in "relative" peace. Ask me in an hour and I may have a different opinion.)

[RJ]

That's interesting, and tallys with my subjective observation the two puffs of smoke appear to be different sizes (noticeably so). One could be bear spray followed by a gunshot with very smokey powder.

But for sure there two gunshots.

Second point about low ready, watching the white shirt guy several times the body language resembles a case where you have a pistol behind your back, then bring it up into a shooting position rapidly. There is no observable motion like you would see from a CCW draw from waistband or appendix.

I've watched the 15 seconds or so over and over at 0.5 speed. I think I've changed my assessment of puffs of smoke vs. shots.

I now can count three puffs of smoke.

Puff one seems to be from Person 1 (black shirt) (I incorrectly said person 1 was walking away; now I believe he is walking towards Person 2) This puff is smaller and may be slightly brownish.

Puff two appears very quickly after puff 1 (approx 0.1s) and is associated with a gunshot sound. This puff is more grayish-white, and larger, than puff 1, and extends from person 2 to person 1.

Puff three appears to be about 0.5s to 0.75s after puff two, and is associated with a gunshot sound. Again, this puff is grayish-white and larger than puff 1, but about the same size as puff 2.

[olstyn]

Same with watch; leave the fancy stuff at home and put on the Timex.

Hm, for me it's Lüm-Tec or Bulova - neither is exactly Rolex level fancy, but I have no Timex, so if I chose to go this route, the choice would instead be watch vs no watch.

Absolutely no stickers on the car.

Not sure how much good that does, given that you drive a Porsche 911. I mean, that car marks you as a "rich guy" kind of regardless of any overt political statements that stickers would make. (Kind of blasphemous to mar a Porsche with stickers anyway, though!) My Audi unfortunately probably has a similar, if lesser effect.

Probably the real answer is just "stay away from political demonstrations/events of any kind if at all possible."