HK P2000 to G19 Transition Observations

[Tokarev]

P2000 v2 is my preferred carry gun. This would be unfortunate news to my wallet...

If HK dumps it nobody should be surprised. It was never overly popular and CBP hasn't bought any guns are parts in a number of years. Now that we're done with the platform there's no reason to keep making it.

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[Doc_Glock]

CBP OFO ( Office of Field Operations- the blue suiters at the ports of entry) use a 36 round qualification course which only goes out to 15 yards and has minimal tine pressure. Your BIL likely hasn’t shot a 25 yards target since he left FLETC so he is doing better than his peers. Most LE Quals are not particularly challenging but the OFO qual is one of the least demanding federal quality courses. For reference the USBP uses a completely different and more challenging qualification course.

He mentioned that their qualification was previously 15 yards max, but will be adding a 25 yard stage with this pistol transition so he was eager to get a little practice at the 25 yesterday.

[HCM]

@Screwball can comment more but I believe OFO is now using a 50rd qual that includes something like eight rounds from 25.

USBP is still rocking the same Q we've had for 20 years although there are some rumblings about going to a 50rd course.

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They were shooting the FLETC PPC in the Acadeny and then the 15 yard course in the field.

A 25 yard stage is necessary. Pretty easy to have a 25 yard shot at an airport, POE or on a ship.
Was the new course adopted with the Glock?

The blame for low firearms standards in OFO lie with the leadership not considering it a priority. At the academy they are in the “no officer left behind” mode due to demand from the field for bodies. In the field the priority is staffing to mitigate wait times.

I’ve literally watched “instructors” tell students to aim at the scoring diagram in the upper right of the target to “Kentucky windage” rounds into center mass. That is not the students fault.

[jh9]

I think the P2000 is already out of production. Not discontinued but rather not being produced.

The good news is that some of the internal parts are the same for the P30.

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Yeah, outside of the frame/barrel/slide there are lots of dual use parts that show up the P30 and USPc. I think even the slide release levers are compatible with the HK45/c.

edit: I don't think it's 100% though. Should probably look into what parts are unique to the P2000 and get a couple.

[Screwball]

@Screwball can comment more but I believe OFO is now using a 50rd qual that includes something like eight rounds from 25.

USBP is still rocking the same Q we've had for 20 years although there are some rumblings about going to a 50rd course.

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46 round qualification... which is duty carry. No more half loaded magazines for a revolver course of fire.

Only difference with the Glock you guys shot will be the magazine base. It is extended, and will go under your pinky. Thought I’d hate it, but I actually like it. Probably a useless feature, but it fits my hand well. Whole rig is noticeably lighter than the P2000... gun, magazines, and ammo. And the DHS serial number prefix is neat... more so if we could buy them back.

I run mine with the large backstrap/beavertail, and the Hogue Hunting grip (wraparound rubber with finger grooves; a pain to get on the gun with large backstrap). I do have bigger hands, but it feels like my 30S.

When OFO does the first qualification, they do at least two of the new course of fire... but the one that counts is a modified version of the old course (15 yard one with H&Ks). We probably messed it up due to our F/I, but that was the idea. Neither are that difficult.

The 46 courses we did, I did 44 and 46. We figured it out... make every shot before the 25, and you are above an 80. Some officers complained about the 25... I personally said get us some familiarity out to 50. Our management wants to play games with not giving us access to long guns, might be our only way of dealing with a threat out that far.

I carried a 30S, so it wasn’t a hard transition. Worst part was listening to the classroom stuff. Another group had an officer put a round in the dirt coming out of the holster. Guy carries a Glock off duty, but it is more due to the “take out the slack” mantra that was pushed with the LEM trigger. I hope officers put plenty of rounds downrange prior to people start needing to pull them out of the holster... since it is a very bad training scar. I still remember being on the line at FLETC, waiting to holster, and instructors yelling that I didn’t have the slack taken out of the trigger while waiting.

But you have some crappy shooters with OFO. A girl that shot next to me (previous TSA), cleared the Glock (when they do it now, you dry fire downrange before reholster)... both me and the RSO watched her put the gun in the holster with her finger on the trigger.

Another tip, when he does 1.5 yard shots... don’t punch out. Bent elbow shoot. Blow a hole in the center of the target, and you have to redo the opening of the course (had an officer do it, right after the F/I said not to).

[Tokarev]

46 round qualification... which is duty carry. No more half loaded magazines for a revolver course of fire.

Only difference with the Glock you guys shot will be the magazine base.

I carried a 30S, so it wasn’t a hard transition. Worst part was listening to the classroom stuff. Another group had an officer put a round in the dirt coming out of the holster.

Another tip, when he does 1.5 yard shots... don’t punch out. Bent elbow shoot. Blow a hole in the center of the target, and you have to redo the opening of the course (had an officer do it, right after the F/I said not to).

We're actually talking about loading five mags at 10 rounds each since we have 47s and 19s on the line side by side. At this point we're having everyone load to twelve since that's what the 72 rd course is based on. As we get more and more agents shooting it we might just have 47 shooters load at one point and 19 shooters load at another. Will save time and be easier than having everyone download mags when they come to the range.

Nobody has shot the dirt yet as we're warming everyone up with quite a bit of dry fire. Letting them figure out the new trigger. I stress finger off the trigger until at least both hands on the gun and extending to the target*

We already shoot bent elbow* and have for 20+ years. We already know about blowing the target off its backer....[emoji16]

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[Screwball]

Nobody has shot the dirt yet as we're warming everyone up with quite a bit of dry fire. Letting them figure out the new trigger. I stress finger off the trigger until at least both hands on the gun and extending to the target*

We already shoot bent elbow* and have for 20+ years. We already know about blowing the target off its backer....[emoji16]

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Was directed towards the OP. [emoji6]

[Tokarev]

Was directed towards the OP.

10-4

Also we have the same extended plates on our high capacity murder clips. One of the guys at work who's more interested in Glocks than I am says Glock has made these previously for the European market.

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[HCM]

46 round qualification... which is duty carry. No more half loaded magazines for a revolver course of fire.

Only difference with the Glock you guys shot will be the magazine base. It is extended, and will go under your pinky. Thought I’d hate it, but I actually like it. Probably a useless feature, but it fits my hand well. Whole rig is noticeably lighter than the P2000... gun, magazines, and ammo. And the DHS serial number prefix is neat... more so if we could buy them back.

I run mine with the large backstrap/beavertail, and the Hogue Hunting grip (wraparound rubber with finger grooves; a pain to get on the gun with large backstrap). I do have bigger hands, but it feels like my 30S.

When OFO does the first qualification, they do at least two of the new course of fire... but the one that counts is a modified version of the old course (15 yard one with H&Ks). We probably messed it up due to our F/I, but that was the idea. Neither are that difficult.

The 46 courses we did, I did 44 and 46. We figured it out... make every shot before the 25, and you are above an 80. Some officers complained about the 25... I personally said get us some familiarity out to 50. Our management wants to play games with not giving us access to long guns, might be our only way of dealing with a threat out that far.

I carried a 30S, so it wasn’t a hard transition. Worst part was listening to the classroom stuff. Another group had an officer put a round in the dirt coming out of the holster. Guy carries a Glock off duty, but it is more due to the “take out the slack” mantra that was pushed with the LEM trigger. I hope officers put plenty of rounds downrange prior to people start needing to pull them out of the holster... since it is a very bad training scar. I still remember being on the line at FLETC, waiting to holster, and instructors yelling that I didn’t have the slack taken out of the trigger while waiting.

But you have some crappy shooters with OFO. A girl that shot next to me (previous TSA), cleared the Glock (when they do it now, you dry fire downrange before reholster)... both me and the RSO watched her put the gun in the holster with her finger on the trigger.

Another tip, when he does 1.5 yard shots... don’t punch out. Bent elbow shoot. Blow a hole in the center of the target, and you have to redo the opening of the course (had an officer do it, right after the F/I said not to).

Bent elbow has been around a long time - back to the old 84 ? round /50 yard USBP Revolver course. It’s in the current ICE course as well.

[Screwball]

10-4

Also we have the same extended plates on our high capacity murder clips. One of the guys at work who's more interested in Glocks than I am says Glock has made these previously for the European market.

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Just wondering... is there any source of them other than CBP? Didn’t know if your coworker might have said anything about it.