Tweaking stuff, I'm over it?

[Aray]

I ran a box stock LE issued M&P 9 in a class last weekend. I chose to use it instead of my PT.com M&P 9 because I haven't had a chance to put many rounds through it yet and nearly immediately forgot about it.

I realized late Sunday night that I hadn't my usual carry/training/competition gun. I didn't notice the lack of the Apex RAM, Pro sear, Mass trigger block, etc. while shooting from improvised positions, shooting at speed, or breaking 25 yd precise shots.

A surprising tidbit to me at least. The gun worked, I got my hits, and my times were representative of what I expect. Maybe all of this tweaky stuff isn't as important as I once thought it was.

[orionz06]

So lining the sights up and pressing the trigger is the same from gun to gun?

[JConn]

I think until we get to a very high level, tweaking stuff on our guns (outside of quality sights) is mostly ineffective. Trigger mods like you mentioned may help a professional shooter shave tenths of a second off of scores and such. However, at least for someone like me, those mods don't make much difference. That said, I do tweak my guns a bit, because I get bored, and it's fun for me.

[DonovanM]

Welcome. It's much less neurotic here

[jstyer]

Haha, I'm right there with you. I was shooting an M&P with RAM, DCEAK, threaded barrel... to currently running a G19 with only sights and a GFA (my palm size quite literally necessitates it). The only other mod I had was a vickers mag release, and even that got dumped in a week. Sometimes, you just gotta let it be

[Savage Hands]

If you have the ability to train and practice often then it may not make a huge difference, I don't have that luxury unfortunately so I prefer triggers that make it slightly easier to shoot and that keepe from throwing a shot less often. It mainly makes a difference for me past 10 yards so I've shot a group at 25 yards before and after to measure the difference and the consistency, long story short it's a huge difference for me and my personal guns. With the M&P's I'd run an Apex Tactical stage 2 which is a polished up DCAEK + RAM which was still measured over 5 pounds, my new Gen 4 G19 only has the 25 cent trigger job which has made a noticeable improvement as well.

[ToddG]

Aray -- How did you measure your performance with the stock gun and against what data did you compare it?

What effect do you think two dedicated days of practice had on your performance compared to the differences in the triggers?

I'm always impressed with the attitude so many folks here on the forum demonstrate. Sure we talk a lot about gear but at the end of the day it's about technique and performance. The danger is that sometimes people can take that too far.

I see it in classes quite often. Half a dozen times a year I'll find a student's gun that is clearly not zeroed. But he's been struggling to correct his technique for weeks or months because he was convinced it had to be him and not the gun. At dinner last night, a buddy mentioned that he was struggling with his 1911 which, in turns out, has a seven pound trigger pull! When asked why he hadn't sent it in to the manufacturer for repair, he said he felt like he should be able to shoot it the way it was.

A superbly tuned trigger won't turn a crappy shooter into a legend, that's true. But it will certainly hamper a competent shooter. The performance plateaus earlier. Your gear is essentially fighting you.

Does that mean everyone needs a 2# trigger? No. But I've seen people run 1911s with 2# triggers doing things that pretty much no one -- including they themselves -- could do with a trigger that was three times as heavy, or had twice the reset length, or was crunchy crawly stacky. That doesn't mean anyone who picks up a 2# triggered gun is going to be awesome, of course.

The trigger matters. It's not the only thing that matters, but it matters.

[DonovanM]

I think as soon as you get inside an envelope of workability, any perceived difference in your performance is purely psychological. Not that there's anything wrong with that, confidence in equipment is always key. But swapping around parts to find the "perfect trigger" I think is a delusional waste of time and praying to false idols.

The only time I'm really aware of my trigger is when shooting groups or dry firing at home anyway. At speed, all of that stuff is way below the radar, even when shooting a 20yd partial.

[ToddG]

The only time I'm really aware of my trigger is when shooting groups or dry firing at home anyway. At speed, all of that stuff is way below the radar, even when shooting a 20yd partial.

Being unaware of it doesn't mean it makes no difference. Add five pounds to your trigger pull and rough up some of the action contact surfaces with a file. See if it makes a difference.

[BWT]

To quote a bible verse.

Pride comes before the fall.

IMHO, that's pure wisdom. The older I get, the more diligent I realize I need to be in how I do many things, and be aware of things I'm either not executing on, or doing well. Pride IMHO in the practical sense we're speaking of is, complacency.

That being said, the way my hands are, I need an extended magazine release on a Glock 17, and I need an extended slide release, and the trigger, LoneWolf 3.5 lb connector, definitely helps, and sights I'm running... magnificent.

Just my $.02

I'd say don't be above "tweaking" guns or fixing things that are causing you obviously not to be able to do something as well. Like I'd have to do an over hand slide rack if I didn't have an extended magazine release, or I'd have to shift my firing grip to eject the magazine.

Something else to consider, I want a textured frame. Whether that be grip decals like we have on my brother's Gen 3 Glock 21, or the just naturally textured Frame of a Glock 17 Gen 4, or if it's G10 grips on a 1911. I know that if I *squeeze* that grip, and fire, even with a less than perfect grip, it will return to a more consistent sight picture after recoil IMHO, than a non-textured frame.

But I mean, I think you can go over the top, I'd never get a Stainless Steel or (ETA: Tungsten, forgot to add a word) guide rod in a Glock to add more weight up front over the standard RSA, or some things like that, just because I feel they are sufficient.

But, certain things do give a performance edge.