A serious discussion of newer S&Ws, "reissued" S&Ws and The Lock

[revchuck38]

I have three S&Ws with the ILS - a 21-4 and a 22-4, both bought new when they first came out, and a 642-2 bought used about a year ago, apparently a KSP trade-in. I've got a couple thousand rounds through each of the N frames with no problems, including some +P HST through the 22-4. I've got 7-800 rounds through the J frame, including R-P LSWC-HP, my old IDPA RNL handloads which chrono 848 fps from my 4" M10, factory-equivalent wadcutter handloads and my current handloads of 125-grain RNFPs at about 850 fps...plus about a box each of R-P GS and Winchester 130-grain bonded JHPs. No issues there either.

[john c]

Knock yourself out and get the ils versions. As shooters, they’re great. If you get one with a lock that self engages, deal with it through a number of different methods that all work great. In fact, you should take it as a challenge to try to engage the lock.

Doing this is a good way to keep the miles off a better example.

I have a few ils Smiths, and they’re fine. I vastly prefer pre versions, but I don’t sweat the new ones. These aren’t carry guns, which doesn’t make sense considering the better options these days.


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[awp_101]

I want a current production DAO snub revolver with a bobbed hammer. Even if I had to have the hammer bobbed and gun converted to DAO, I would do it. The only real option* I have is S&W, but that ILS is just a no go for me.

S&W used to do runs of no lock 442 and 642, I wonder if they still do?

[HeavyDuty]

I want a current production DAO snub revolver with a bobbed hammer. Even if I had to have the hammer bobbed and gun converted to DAO, I would do it. The only real option* I have is S&W, but that ILS is just a no go for me.


* Yes there is the SP101 DAO, but that’s heavy for 5. Charter Arms I know little about, but there doesn’t seem to be much trust in them from what I read.

The Taurus 856 is a possibility. It’s a gun I want to work, like the size of, and like the 6 round capacity. If they continue to show to be reliable, I might just pick one up.

I’m still liking my K6 - is that an option? They have quite a few variants now.

[awp_101]

I soured on the 4" both times and and sold them. I went to a 5", pre-ILS, pre-MIM, hammer nose gun (simply because they didn't make a 6")

Yeah, those 5” 625s are so tempting but a 4” is the sweet spot for balance and aesthetics to me. I might go that route anyway but it’ll have to be a non-ported version.

[awp_101]

I’m still liking my K6 - is that an option? They have quite a few variants now.

I’ve never handled one, but I thought they were closer to SP101 sized than J frame sized?

[jetfire]

I have never had an internal lock engage on its own, but I also have never owned a light-weight IL gun and shot it with hard-kicking ammunition. That appears to be the common thread among IL malfunctions.

This is pretty much the general consensus. While accidental ILS activation has occurred with steel framed guns, the most common culprits are extremely lightweight guns shooting hard kicking ammo. If I recall correctly, one of worst for this was the Scandium framed .44 Mag, which would lock the gun up after the first shot with hot magnum ammo.

Over a three year period before I switched to Ruger revolvers, I fired 7,170 rounds through S&W revolvers, all of which were L or N frames outfitted with an ILS. I never had a lock activation during that time. I also only shot .38 Special, normal pressure .357 Mag, or .45 ACP through the guns, so it wasn't like I was out hammering super high pressure bullshit.

[HeavyDuty]

I’ve never handled one, but I thought they were closer to SP101 sized than J frame sized?

They are, but six shot capacity.

[HeavyDuty]

This is pretty much the general consensus. While accidental ILS activation has occurred with steel framed guns, the most common culprits are extremely lightweight guns shooting hard kicking ammo. If I recall correctly, one of worst for this was the Scandium framed .44 Mag, which would lock the gun up after the first shot with hot magnum ammo.

Over a three year period before I switched to Ruger revolvers, I fired 7,170 rounds through S&W revolvers, all of which were L or N frames outfitted with an ILS. I never had a lock activation during that time. I also only shot .38 Special, normal pressure .357 Mag, or .45 ACP through the guns, so it wasn't like I was out hammering super high pressure bullshit.

This is why I decided to immediately plug my 69 after a quick test fire session to make sure it was a keeper - I figured it was exactly the type of gun most prone to spontaneous ILS lockup.

[TheNewbie]

S&W used to do runs of no lock 442 and 642, I wonder if they still do?

They do but I want an external hammer to thumb when holsteting.

Regarding the K6. They have an external hammer, but only in DA/SA format. At this time, I’m not aware of anyone converting them to DAO. The K6 DAO with an external hammer would probably be the ideal set up for me.

Maybe I’m asking too much, but what I want is what I want.