I have an ILS gun but it isn't a carry. Probably shot 2-3K with it and zero problems. I don't even carry a key anymore.
I have an ILS gun but it isn't a carry. Probably shot 2-3K with it and zero problems. I don't even carry a key anymore.
In the P-F basket of deplorables.
I sold a 3" 686+ because I couldn't get comfortable with the idea of carrying it with the internal lock, and I didn't want to mess with the innards.
(I otherwise enjoyed that gun.)
There's nothing civil about this war.
I own one ILS gun, a 327 R8. I've not had it long enough to put up any more than rookie numbers, but I haven't had a problem. I don't think I'd be inclined to get a lock'd gun if there was a no-lock version available for a reasonable price--for instance, if I got a 610, I'd get a new one if it was significantly cheaper than the old versions.
When it comes to carry guns, I would probably stick to pre-lock guns. To me, there's no reason to bother with a new gun for that purpose. It's not like Smith revolvers wear out, they're nearly always available, and the pricing isn't bad. Their new models, in my opinion, tend to be pretty expensive for what you actually get. And to be honest--it's a carry gun. No disrespect to LTTs and such, but I don't look for anything other than basic features, finishes, and triggers. There are plenty of J-, K-, and L-frame models that do what a carry gun needs to do without needing to look for very specific, limited-availability options.
Problem with your question is there are probably a lot of folks this forum who refuse to purchase a locked equipped version and cannot give you feedback on direct experience with a failure.
There have been posts here from credible people claiming first hand experience. I believe them...YMMV. If you want to talk yourself into purchasing one, go ahead. First though, compare the price of new S&W with ILS to used S&W without. It is enlightening. There is absolutely no reason I would ever own an ILS equipped version.
That's sort of what I've come up with as well. Same parameters for bullet pull if you discount the ILS.Originally Posted by oregon45
This is becoming...therapeutic. I still wouldn't willingly carry an ILS if I could help it but for fun guns I don't feel so bad about looking at them now.
Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits - Mark Twain
Tact is the knack of making a point without making an enemy / Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge?
I don't doubt the ones that have had a failure and most of the ones I've looked at are used. I won't buy a new S&W at all without a hands on inspection first. Actually, I could almost stop at "I won't buy a new S&W at all" because it would have to be something pretty special to get me to fork over money directly to S&W.
Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits - Mark Twain
Tact is the knack of making a point without making an enemy / Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge?
That part of your story is identical to mine, including the time frame, two days of carry and a completely trashed finish.
However mine did lock up once during dry-fire. I ground the nubbin down to nothing and it’s been 100% since.
im strong, i can run faster than train
I've had two different 4" 625 JMs. Not exactly a lightweight or really heavy recoiling caliber, though 250 rounds of major PF ammo in a day will make you feel it. The first one was tuned by the S&W Performance Center when I had to return it for a hammer replacement. Had the issue before the trip back to birthplace and after. The second one I tuned the trigger and action myself but left all the lock parts in it. It also had the issue.
The issue: After a few rounds fired this occured. The tiny little spring holding one of the lock parts in place would never stay seated in its proper place. Inertia from recoil would dislodge it and it looked like it was going to come out and let the flag move into the locked position and tie up the gun,
OR
that little spring could well lock up the action itself depending on where it ended up.
It never did come completely out but it sure looked as if it was going to. You could look down into the frame on the left side of the hammer and see it was barely hanging in it's seat on one end. Like said it never caused me an issue with a fair number of rounds fired, but I soured on the 4" both times and and sold them. I went to a 5", pre-ILS, pre-MIM, hammer nose gun (simply because they didn't make a 6").
I've seen an awful lot of the "Classic Series repro" models that were just gorgeous in fit and finish and desirable in every way, right up until I turned them over and see that eyesore on the left side.
I've only owned two ILS guns: A 642 which went a few hundred rounds of 38 without any problems before I traded it for something with better sights and no lock; and a 625-9 that I didn't fire until after I'd installed a plug, because that mountain gun gets some backcountry carry and I'm not taking any chances.
I did ask at the range tonight, and one of our old timers (30+ years as a RSO) says he's seen several S&W lock up, at least two fairly recently. He didn't recall a lot of details but thinks they were mostly smaller/lighter variants. Rick is our lead RSO and is there a great deal more often than anyone else, so he's far more likely to be aware of issues than the rest of us. A bit of context: While we see a lot of revolvers at this range, most are older pre-lock guns and I personally have not yet seen any (non-user induced) major malfunctions with a revolver in 8+ years of once every two months RSO duty there; we did have a brand new name-brand semi-auto tonight that couldn't fire two consecutive rounds without a stoppage, owner is taking it back to where he bought it tomorrow, and I have seen several variations of that in the past. Difference is those have been attributable to a diverse array of different QC issues and were apparent very early. Not the same as one specific item such as ILS that could manifest at any time.
I wouldn't worry about it with something intended for range use only. Carry is an entirely different matter.
I want a current production DAO snub revolver with a bobbed hammer. Even if I had to have the hammer bobbed and gun converted to DAO, I would do it. The only real option* I have is S&W, but that ILS is just a no go for me.
* Yes there is the SP101 DAO, but that’s heavy for 5. Charter Arms I know little about, but there doesn’t seem to be much trust in them from what I read.
The Taurus 856 is a possibility. It’s a gun I want to work, like the size of, and like the 6 round capacity. If they continue to show to be reliable, I might just pick one up.
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