A serious discussion of newer S&Ws, "reissued" S&Ws and The Lock

[TDA]

I've been considering a list of upgrades I'd like to make to the accumulation collection and high on the list are a couple (or maybe several) S&W models. The short version is I'm mostly priced out of the market when it comes to price vs condition for "the good stuff made when barrels were pinned, chambers were recessed and locks were on the case instead of the gun" unless I want a beater or cosmetically challenged sample. I've had those and they generally aren't an upgrade.

I'll get this out of the way now: I dislike the ILS cursed be the name. I dislike what it represents. I dislike how it looks. About 10 years ago I inadvertently made my wife cry when I expressed my deep and abiding dislike of the ILS and claimed I'd never own one. How was I supposed to know she'd already put a brandy new 638 on layaway for my Christmas present? But I digress and now find myself in a position where I have to at least consider an ILS model either because what I want only came with the lock (4" .45 ACP 625s come to mind) or something like a 21-4 makes much more sense for me to get than trying to round up an original Model 21.

The first question I have is, has anyone here actually had the ILS fail on a gun they own? Not heard it from a friend, not heard it from the gunshop counter guy, etc. I've read about the potential to fail much more than I've actually seen reports of failure and I've not actually run into anyone that's had it happen. Not saying it doesn't happen, not saying it won't happen and if someone here has had it happen I'm sure not going to dispute it. And for a safe queen/range toy, does it really matter?

Second, I know not to buy a new S&W without having it in hand to inspect, especially anything with a 2 piece barrel. What about the Heritage and Classic series? I briefly handled a TRS 21-4 this afternoon and was impressed with the finish. The barrel didn't appear to be off kilter and I recall reading the throats and bore are properly sized. Is that the norm with these lines?

Just because it's almost directly on point, I've got a TRS 25-4 (without the gold logo, even!) that I bought because it seemed really cool, I use it the way you're thinking of using it, and I have had no issues with the ILS. It's a range gun, and it's a steel N frame chambered for a non magnum cartridge, and it turned out to be really cool. If you like the TRS 21-4, you should get it.

[Dave T]

I've owned two 325 Night Guards, a 325 PD (4"), and a 386 Night Guard. Despite my objection to the IL, both philosophically and because they're just fugly, that hasn't been my main problem with newer Smiths. Except for the 325 PD, which came with the worst DA trigger pull I have ever experienced on a Smith & Wesson (and I've been shooting them since the early 1970s) my biggest problem has been poor ignition because of the floating, frame mounted firing pin. The PD fired every time but no primer invented by man could withstand the force of that hammer spring (lol).

I got tired of messing with the 325 NGs and traded or sold them off. The PD was going to be the answer to a carry gun in the proper caliber (45 of course - smile) but S&W quality came through again when the frame under the barrel threads cracked and they didn't care since I bought it second hand. The 386 was equally difficult to get to fire primers and when it was working it suddenly stopped advancing the cylinder. The bolt release had been the victim of tolerance-stack and was failing to be engaged by the trigger. Thanks to a good gun smith I got it working but it's taken a year to get it to where I trust it. It's now my carry gun...and I still wish it was a 45 (lol).

Dave

[TDA]

Since it’s all B.S. without pictures:

[medic15al]

I had a mid-oughties vintage 638 engage the lock while firing..... mmm.... I'm pretty sure it was 158 Grain +P LSWCHP.

It now has a plug.

About the same time my 438 locked with RNL And MY S&W M25-13 Mtn Gun 45 Colt did as well with 250 grain LHP at about 925 FPS Factory Buffalo Bore standard pressure load.

Both locks were removed as they were my security duty guns in a revolver only post.

Sniff.... I miss those revolvers.....